How to make Carribean Stud better

My friend just got back from the Carribean and told me that the Carribean Stud tables were empty. That's not surprising, because the game is terrible.

But there would be a very easy way to make the game better.

7 Cards.

Make a pair of tens the qualifying hand.

Obviously the paytables would have to change.

Would you play, Yes or No?

I vote yes. I'll try anything once. But I'd be interested to see if the HE stayed as high as it is now, and if the gameplay slowed even farther down.

Or they could just keep the same rules but improve the paytable, for example:

Hand	Payout
Royal Flush	100:1
Straight Flush	50:1
Four of a Kind	25:1
Full House	15:1
Flush	9:1
Straight	6:1
Three of a Kind	3:1
Two Pair	2:1
One Pair	1:1
Ace-King	1:1

That paytable has a house edge of 1.9915% and an element of risk of 0.9741%.

I read yesterday that CS is dying everywhere and
it might not last another few years. Too many better
games competing with it.

The game isn't bad because of the bad odds; heck, lots of bad odds games are fun.

The game is bad because you can get "bad beats" frequently, when the dealer doesn't qualify and you have a nice hand. That is the #1 complaint I've heard at the other carnival tables, when the subject of Caribbean comes up: "I had a full house and the dealer didn't qualify." "I had a flush and the dealer didn't qualify, and then I had a straight and the dealer had a flush."

That makes it "not fun". People gamble for fun, not for frustration.

(i) The game odds (in the UK) had too much house edge.
(ii) There wasn't a side bet (similar to 3-card) that pays out for good hands.
(iii) The irritation factor when you get a good hand and the dealer doesn't qualify IS the worst thing about the game.
(iv) Similar when you're beaten - but to be honest 3-card has that as well.
(v) There was a £1 sidebet for a Jackpot (typically £50 fl, £75 FH, £100 Quads, >£100000 RF, 10% SF), but gradually that's gone.

I've seen various varieties (Oasis where you can exchange card(s) for an Ante) and "Russian" (in Prague) where you buy the dealer a card (typically done where you have trips or better).

At the time I had only seen 3-card on the Isle of Man, but since then 3-card has taken over, and while 5-card is still in some of the larger UK casinos, I can't see it coming back anywhere else. fwiw Let It Ride came and went in the UK.

The easiest change would have been to pay out a bonus on the hand (regardless of whether the dealer qualifies or not).

Quote: charliepatrick

(i) The game odds (in the UK) had too much house edge.
(ii) There wasn't a side bet (similar to 3-card) that pays out for good hands.
(iii) The irritation factor when you get a good hand and the dealer doesn't qualify IS the worst thing about the game.
(iv) Similar when you're beaten - but to be honest 3-card has that as well.
(v) There was a £1 sidebet for a Jackpot (typically £50 fl, £75 FH, £100 Quads, >£100000 RF, 10% SF), but gradually that's gone.

I've seen various varieties (Oasis where you can exchange card(s) for an Ante) and "Russian" (in Prague) where you buy the dealer a card (typically done where you have trips or better).

At the time I had only seen 3-card on the Isle of Man, but since then 3-card has taken over, and while 5-card is still in some of the larger UK casinos, I can't see it coming back anywhere else. fwiw Let It Ride came and went in the UK.

The easiest change would have been to pay out a bonus on the hand (regardless of whether the dealer qualifies or not).

I have seen this as an option on some tables, specifically at Ameristar St Charles. It's a side bet, and I'm sure the odds are lousy, but at least you'd get paid for good hands.

There are some Caribbean Stud games where they allow you to buy an extra card. I think that makes the game much more interesting.

Very nice pay-table. On-line Casinos should offer it, especially if offering Oasis Poker.

I agree, too many " I had quads, Dealer no Qualify" stories, makes CS a very bad game.

EDIT: a new thought. Suppose the ANTE wager pay-offs increase using a standard pay-table:

Sorry for dbl-post, thought it might be better than obscurring the work.
EDITTED for ERROR

I did the math and came up with this ANTE SCHEDULE

Two Pair or less 1:1
Triples 2:1 [1:1]
Straight 3:1 [3:1]
Flush 4:1 [5:1]
Full House 6:1 [7:1]
Quads 10:1
Str-FL 20:1
Royal 50:1

Used with this 2-unit Raise Schedule

One Pair or less 1:1
Two Pair 2:1
Triples 3:1
Straight 4:1
Flush 5:1
Full House 7:1
Quads 20:1 [15:1]
Str-FL 50:1 [40:1]
Royal 100:1


This Ante payout reduces HA to about 2.1465%. Element of Risk 1.05%
The value of an Ante for the purpose of "No Qualify" is approx 1.0251

EDIT for revised plan better suited to Live Play. the Payouts in [ ]'s have a HA of 3.51% 2/22/12

Caribbean Stud used to be my favorite game for some reason, but I've soured on it recently. After playing a number of different table games, the CSP pay-table comes off as kinda stingy to me. Even the bonuses on flushes and full houses ($50 and $100) seem a bit light, especially if the dealer doesn't qualify. In comparison, I can win $90 with a straight on a $10 3-Card Poker table, which is a lot easier to get than a full house on CSP.

I wish every game with an adge over 2.5 would reduce edge or die.
Make the casinos work a little harder for the money!

Quote: JB

Or they could just keep the same rules but improve the paytable, for example:

Hand	Payout
Royal Flush	100:1
Straight Flush	50:1
Four of a Kind	25:1
Full House	15:1
Flush	9:1
Straight	6:1
Three of a Kind	3:1
Two Pair	2:1
One Pair	1:1
Ace-King	1:1

That paytable has a house edge of 1.9915% and an element of risk of 0.9741%.

Casino operators are queasy at a flat bet having < a 2% edge, no less a payout table type bet with < 2% edge. They sweat Blackjack.
Players generally don't know the house edges of games, they notice if it is fun to play. Granted, there is a corrolation between winning and fun, but within a small fraction the play feels the same for the same game. I just think the game might be doomed....

My casino has it, and all the dealers wonder when they're gonna get rid of it. It's only open on weekends, maybe 15 hours total per week. It's a progressive, but they could obviously make more money putting something else in, it's not cheap renting the shuffle machine and the electronics for the table.

There already IS a better version of Caribbean Stud and it is called Oasis poker. Rules and paytable are the same as in CS but the player has the option to replace one of his cards for a cost of Ante bet. See: https://wizardofodds.com/games/oasis-poker/

With optimal strategy Oasis poker has a house edge of 1.04% (Element of risk 0.47%). In addition my casino offers the choice of replacing Dealer's highest card for a cost of one Ante when dealer doesn't qualify, reducing the HE further still.

But just like Carribean Stud, if you get a good hand and the Dealer DNQ's, you get squat, (well 1:1) unless you have a Bonus Bet played. Basically most of us don't do that unless the JP is 200G's.
Thats why I suggested an Elevated Ante (no pay if you lose, pays if Win, tie or DNQ). Frankly, at this stage let CSP and its 5.22% retire.

Oasis is too low a House Advantage to play Brick and Mortar. Internet is OK, but even Oasis has the good hand/no pay problem.

Quote: 98Clubs

But just like Carribean Stud, if you get a good hand and the Dealer DNQ's, you get squat, (well 1:1) unless you have a Bonus Bet played. Basically most of us don't do that unless the JP is 200G's.
Thats why I suggested an Elevated Ante (no pay if you lose, pays if Win, tie or DNQ). Frankly, at this stage let CSP and its 5.22% retire.

Oasis is too low a House Advantage to play Brick and Mortar. Internet is OK, but even Oasis has the good hand/no pay problem.

I don't see "good hand / no pay" as a problem. In fact I once got a Royal with $100 ante (played Oasis at B&M casino and replaced one card from initial 4-to-royal hand) and missed the huge $20k payout because dealer failed to qualify against my Royal. But as frustrating as it was at the time, it's just part of the game. In Oasis you hit premium hands (straight of higher) more frequently because of the card replacement, so even if dealer doesn't always qualify, you get many more attempts at high payouts.

In Russian poker (variety of Oasis) - when you pay [an "Ante"] to have the dealer to draw an extra card with trips+ there's also an option to make an insurance bet, which pays out if the dealer still doesn't qualify - thus in essence you can ensure a payout of some kind. Also if you don't insure you still get an extra chance (statistically worth taking) for dealer to qualify (there are usually 12 chances to make a pair).

The easiest way to make CS appear better for the player (but actually making it worse for the average player) and overcome the frustruation of very good hand not been paid because the dealer did not qualify is the following rule.
When a player gets a a very good hand that has a high payout (for example from flush and better), he gets the option to get an Early payout of half the usual payout before the dealer reveals his cards. Thus he gets paid half even if the dealer does not qualify or even if the dealer has a better hand.
Such a rule can only apply to High payout hands. The half payment can also apply to the Ante bet or the Ante bet not been paid at all depending on how good the casino wants its rules to be. In most cases this would be a negative Ev proposition of the player.
This option is similar to the insurance option that the previous poster mentioned, but does not require the player to bet extra money.
And no, I did not think of this option. This option exists in some parts of the world. And the players love this rule. When players get a good hand, they agonise whether to take the Early payout or try their luck for the full payout. Most of the time they chicken and take the early payout and experience a sign of relief if the dealer does not qualify. But if the dealer qualifies they hypothetise of the double amount they would have won if they did not take the early payout and get a little frustated. But compared to the frustration of not been paid very good hands when the dealer does not qualify, overall the players love this rule.