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Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
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June 1st, 2011 at 12:10:16 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

You guys that think this document is "spot on" are completely insane.


The document's perfectly fine, and it's also unimportant and means nothing, - so just get over it.
What case or conspiracy are you trying to prove?....There's nothing earth-shattering over here...

Quote: Zcore13

"The house shuffle was designed to run in waves, having higher points and low points" - Any shuffle at any Casino will have this! Cards are random. Neither the Dealer, Pit Boss or shuffler know how many players are going to be sitting at the table or jumping in and out of the game. Anyone who says they can shuffle a special way to make people win or lose is a moron.


That's what the document also said, that it's random, not stacked. ALL randomly shuffled decks of cards have variance - or "waves." If the deck was stacked, or crooked, wouldn't it be consistently favoring one side? This is fine.

Quote: Zcore13

"Keep this in mind when your cards hit the lows and give the house shuffle and your Dealer's a chance to work." - The only thing that works are random cards. The Dealer or shuffle can't work any harder or less hard to change this.


The author was saying this. He was advising the pit bosses to give random cards a chance, and to not blame the dealer.

Quote: Zcore13

"Make sure you have all the information possible about a table that you are considering a change on." - More old school crap. Cards are cards. Switching Dealer's mid push or faster than would be normal just ends up pissing a player that's winning off and makes many of them want to leave and go somewhere else. You have to take the winners with the losers. Blackjack wins in the long run. If you can't handle someone fairly winning $10,000, $20,000, $100,000, get out of the business.


Having information on a table (who the player is, what he is betting, how long he's been there, etc...) is not old school crap. It's good advice to go into a situation knowing what the facts are before you take action, such as making changes. It's common sense, perfectly fine.
Quote: Zcore13

"Be aware of the table percentages. Yes, table 8 has lost $1,000 of the lead we had, but the table is still up 15% of the buy ins. There's really no need for change. - Of course there's no need for change... It won't make a bit of difference! The change could bring a temporary swing toward the house or to the player, the same as no change. The Pit Bosses job should be to make sure all games are being dealt and played fairly. House edge takes care of the rest no matter who is dealing.


And that's what the author was saying, too.

Zcore, what is your experience in the gaming industry?
I think if you had experience in the gaming industry, you recognize this document as trying to get away from "old school" gaming.

Old school Gaming is to:
1. Be superstitious,
2. SWEAT the money,
3. blame the innocent dealer, and
4. make unnecessary changes.
That's Old School, for your information.

This document advises pit bosses and floormen:
1. NOT to be superstitious,
2. don't sweat the money,
3. don't blame the dealer,
4. don't make any unnecessary changes, and
5. show up at the table knowing ALL the facts.

Very Fine advice.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
Joined: Mar 11, 2010
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June 1st, 2011 at 12:42:58 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan


Old school Gaming is to:
1. Be superstitious,
2. SWEAT the money,
3. blame the innocent dealer, and
4. make unnecessary changes.
That's Old School, for your information.

This document advises pit bosses and floormen:
1. NOT to be superstitious,
2. don't sweat the money,
3. don't blame the dealer,
4. don't make any unnecessary changes, and
5. show up at the table knowing ALL the facts.

Very Fine advice.



Agreed. But it's pretty odd/funny that the memo is written as though it's the seminal work in the field of New School pit supervision. It's also pretty patronizing. And it's downright strange to say that the dealer's confidence would be shaken if a player happened to win. As if dealers attempt to affect the game to the house's benefit...
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
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June 1st, 2011 at 12:54:14 PM permalink
There's a lot of clowns in every industry, - and the author was no genius, - but he gave some good "don't sweat the money" advice.

The document was from a while ago, when dealers feared floor supervision, and floormen wanted it that way. (They still do, but they don't get it).
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
MangoJ
MangoJ
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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June 1st, 2011 at 1:06:07 PM permalink
All I read from the document: How to look busy by doing nothing of importance.
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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June 1st, 2011 at 1:07:17 PM permalink
Here is what the document could have said...

"Make sure you know what is happening at your tables. If the game is being dealt fair and being played fair, let the chips fall where they may. Don't sweat the money, change dealers or shuffle any different whether someone is beating us for $100,000 or losing $100,000."

There, I just saved 500 words and didn't demean any dealers by saying I need to boost their confidence when someone is winning. I also didn't say anything stupid like "Making unnecessary changes throws your consistancy right out the window." What the heck does that mean? A dealer change does not throw anything out the window. The cards are still random.

I stand by my statement that just about everything in the document is small minded and procedurely lame. And for the record I have been a Dealer and Pit Boss in the past and am currently a Table Games Shift Manager. A few players on here know me and know I treat them good whether they are winning or losing.
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
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June 1st, 2011 at 2:02:51 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

And for the record I have been a Dealer and Pit Boss in the past and am currently a Table Games Shift Manager.


Absolutely Wow....and I actually thought you were a gaming industry newbie....sorry! :)

As a fellow industry worker, we have to know that our industry is filled with "well-intentioned knuckleheads who are trying very hard," and that document sample was, well, a typical example: very good advice, but a bit shallow. WTH.
The advice to treat dealers decently is actually very good advice, as we have ALL seen in this industry a floorman berating an innocent dealer simply because a player has had a winning night. If the dealer isn't stacking the cards or is dealing seconds, why berate him?

Zcore, with your experience - have you taken your hand in writing up some good Casino Operations Manuals and handbooks?

It's a very hard thing to do well, with easy criticism all around. A very back-biting industry. The Hollywood Insider has nothing on Gaming.

Sometimes criticism has to be tough, ruthless, as a reality check.
But the "I can do better!" claim is often met with "show us your Pearls!" retort.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
kp
kp
Joined: Feb 28, 2011
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June 1st, 2011 at 2:24:16 PM permalink
I like the part about not taking a losing dealer off the game and keeping a wining dealer on the game. In other words, just keep the dealers working regardless. I don't think the wining dealers will appreciate a two hour wining streak with no breaks.
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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June 1st, 2011 at 2:37:14 PM permalink
Paigowdan... I fight the battle all the time and will continue to fight the battle wherever I work. I treat the Pit Bosses with respect and they are expected to treat the Dealers with respect. And everyone treats the players with respect. No switching dealers, no cutting the shoe in half, no changing of shuffles. As I mentioned, if the player is not cheating and the Dealer is not cheating I wish every player good luck and really hope they win. We all know the odds won't allow that, but if I've had days where I took a beating on every table just about every hour. If the Pit Boss does anything else but make sure everything is fair and laugh at the dumb luck, we've got a problem.

Oh, and yes, I help with policies and procedures. There are a few of us that all put our heads together when it's time to add or edit them. I usually lean toward player comfort and procedures that use common sense.
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.

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