strusiu
strusiu
Joined: Dec 7, 2009
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December 7th, 2009 at 4:32:00 AM permalink
Suppose that you have a straight and the dealer has three of a kind. Do you win Ante Bet Bonus in this situation?
Croupier
Croupier
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December 7th, 2009 at 5:15:43 AM permalink
Yes. The Ante Bonus is the same as the pair plus in that it is paid for any qualifying hand regardless of the outcome of the hand.
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Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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April 29th, 2010 at 6:10:03 PM permalink
Croupier, I assume that that is UK practice.
I have seen and dealt here in Las Vegas that a losing hand is generally a full loss on the ANTE; Ante payments, including bonuses, require an ANTE win in some houses. Simply put, Lose the Ante is to Lose the Ante bonus. It is also assumed that the Pair Plus would provide for the win over the ante loss if made.

Almost always an ANTE bonus is a win on the hand, so cases where a straight or better loses to a higher hand is exceedingly rare.

This will result in different houses handling it in different ways as a freak occurance, in the sense that different shift managers and pit bosses will make different "on the spot" calls - based on their own knowledge and assumptions when presented with a situation that is not covered in the pit's or dealer's general knowledge of the game. No one has Dereck Webb's phone number handy!
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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April 29th, 2010 at 6:19:27 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

No one has Dereck Webb's phone number handy!

No, but you have a right to insist that Gaming be consulted if you're not happy with the call. And if you're not happy with thier answer, get it written up and appeal it (I'm not sure to who, but...).


This scenario was the topic of one of the Wiz' posts in the Dealer Mistakes thread. Here's a link directly to the post:
http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/questions-and-answers/advice/1259-mistaken-dealer-payout/2/#post11986
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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April 29th, 2010 at 8:06:35 PM permalink
I have never heard of a case at my casino where an aggrieved player went to the Gaming Commission - that's even rarer than the hands. Most cases the floor will offer solid comp, or at least thoroughly explain their rationale.

The hand I dealt in three card poker a while ago - a low straight - was beaten by my higher straight as dealer - so I paid the Pair-plus 6:1 after taking the ANTE and Play. I was previously told this was the action, and the player didn't even question it, losing his two nickels on the Ante/Play combo, but winning $30 on the P-p. With the other convention, the player would have won a total of $35, a $5 difference, adding only the extra ANTE bonus. It made for a short and interesting conversation with a player who was glad to win the P-p.

For Gaming to be contacted over this $5 effect would have been petty. If the player had protested, the floor would have thrown him the nickel, and the player would have hopefully announced, "what a great place to play!"

Quite often my floormen are mistaken about things, and I have to just dummy up and deal. Some are sharp, and some are dangerous idiots who are trying to kill us.

WE SHOULD HAVE A THREAD FOR FREAK HAND OCCURANCES AND HOW THE CASINO, DEALER OR FLOOR HANDLED IT!!!
This could include:
- Doubling for less on superfun-21 with Surrender;
- Super-fun-21 doubling four card 11/soft-11, and getting a five-card 21 that pays double (is it now 4x via the double? I once had to pay 4x.
- The push your luck side bet on blackjack when player has a blackjack, and dealer has an ace calling insurance - and the player wishes to take insurance. (A Dealer's BJ would pay both the tie and the insurance - a double-up win, so to speak).

The thing about mis-paying freak hands is that - as freak hands - their payout effect is usually negligible on the casino pit's bottom line, but causes noise and interest in and above its real $$$ impact.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Wizard
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Wizard
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April 29th, 2010 at 9:04:14 PM permalink
Quote: strusiu

Suppose that you have a straight and the dealer has three of a kind. Do you win Ante Bet Bonus in this situation?



Yes!!! The Ante bonus is payable whether or not you beat the dealer or the dealer qualfies. DJ linked to a post where I wrote about this frequently made dealer error above. I should try to estimate the amount of money players have lost due dealers almost never knowing the correct rule. Off the top of my head, I think that cost would be in the millions.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
miplet
miplet
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April 30th, 2010 at 3:48:14 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Yes!!! The Ante bonus is payable whether or not you beat the dealer or the dealer qualfies. DJ linked to a post where I wrote about this frequently made dealer error above. I should try to estimate the amount of money players have lost due dealers almost never knowing the correct rule. Off the top of my head, I think that cost would be in the millions.


Assuming me and excel are having a good day, I get a player ev lost due to not paying loss/tied ante bonuses of 0.000755457665881 using 5/4/1 paytable. You will get a losing or tied ante bonus about 1 in 1389 hands. Here is the raw data of the total 407170400 posible player vs. dealer hands:
hand win lose tie
straight 12976488 270504 18288
trips 954736 3312 0
str flush 883240 968 144
“Man Babes” #AxelFabulous
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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April 30th, 2010 at 5:22:58 AM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

I have never heard of a case at my casino where an aggrieved player went to the Gaming Commission - that's even rarer than the hands. Most cases the floor will offer solid comp, or at least thoroughly explain their rationale.

For Gaming to be contacted over this $5 effect would have been petty. If the player had protested, the floor would have thrown him the nickel, and the player would have hopefully announced, "what a great place to play!"

Oh, I doubt anyone would get so petty as to get Gaming involved. But it is an option.

But if the floorman is good, he'd realize that there are two ways to protect the casino's interest. One is to hoarde every chip. The other is good customer services. The couple bucks it costs to keep a customer happy is a great investment. Floormen who understand where the line is, are great floormen.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Mosca
Mosca
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April 30th, 2010 at 6:08:16 AM permalink
I'd call gaming over the $5, if they didn't pay me. But I'd doubt it would get to that. I think it is more likely that we'd find someone who knew the rules.
NO KILL I
Wizard
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Wizard
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April 30th, 2010 at 7:02:49 AM permalink
Quote: Mosca

I'd call gaming over the $5, if they didn't pay me. But I'd doubt it would get to that. I think it is more likely that we'd find someone who knew the rules.



I would too. I'm big on principle. I was prepared to call Gaming over $7.50 once. It was about 2005 I was suprirsed to find a single-deck game at Circus Circus with no 6-5 sign on it. So I started playing. The first time I got a blackjack the dealer paid me 6-5 odds on a $25 bet (the count was low). I challenged it, saying nowhere did signage indicate blackjacks pay 6-5. The dealer called over the flooman, and I repeated the same thing. He then opened a bunch of drawers until he found a sign that said "blackjack pays 6-5," and put it on the table with a self-righteous look on his face. I indicated that sign wasn't on the table at the time I made the bet. He basically said "tough." So I asked to speak to the casino manager on duty. I was told him name and where I might find him. It took some time to locate him but I eventually tracked him down and told him the story. This was in another part of the casino, by a roulette table. After hearing the story he told the roulette dealer to give me $7.50, which he did. So the call to Gaming was averted.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.

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