Craps Question

In atlantic city a while back, i had been playing craps. It was mid roll with, with 6 as the point. thinking it was legal, i decided to raise my pass bet and the backup. the dealer literally threw my chips at me and started yelling. Is it illegal to raise your pass mid-roll? Im not %100 sure and was really taken back by his reaction.

You can raise your Odds bet beyond your pass line bet, but not the pass line bet itself. Being that the odds bet pays fair odds (6/5 for a point of 6) you would not want to put your money on the pass line at this point anyway (which pays even money but has a 5/6 chance to win). The casino should be happy that you are willing to do it, but you would not want to, so they don't allow you to do so.

I have made a pass line bet and backed it with odds (after asking) when the point has already been set and have never been told no.(And yes, I know you aren't supposed to because it has a higher house edge, but I only do this when it is 6 or 8)

Next time that happens, call a floor person.

Since the shooter is more likely to roll a 7 than the point, they should allow you to increase (or initiate) a Pass Line bet, as well as reduce a Don't Pass bet.

Note that if you're planning on adding 4x-4x-5x odds, then doing this is no different than a place bet. Therefore, the only reason you'd want to do it is if the table offers better than 4x-4x-5x odds, and you're exceeding that.

Let me just make sure I understand the situation: After the point was established you put additional money on the pass and backed that up with odds to match? Assuming you didn't make a mistake and put down too much odds, that kind of a bet should be welcomed by the casino. If they do not allow it - make the place bets as DJ recommended assuming it's 3x,4x,5x. In fact if it's 3/4/5 a place bet is better than a "put" bet (look it up) for the 4 and 10.

Some casinos might not allow put bets which could be your problem.

the dealer was a dick......there is nothing wrong with what you did.

That seems to be a dealer situation that the players are encountering more and more these days.
My various local Indian casinos are often filled with scowling floormen and BJ dealers who don't much care.

Situation with dice crews in Biloxi a while ago was so bad, I resolved to never enter the Isle of Capri again and to never enter any casino associated with that corporation. It was not just a few post-Katrina new hires who routinely would take the Come Bets on a Seven-Out, it was downright rude dice crews.

You are allowed to "put" a passline bet after the point is established, and to increase it if you wish. You normally increase odds but you may increase odds or the pass line bet, though it's rarely seen and may cause a dealer to get confused and snap. However, You MUST KEEP the highest level of pass line bet reached once done during the same points life, but you may raise or lower or remove odds at will.

Quote: appistappis

the dealer was a dick......there is nothing wrong with what you did.

Correct, the dealer was a moron, ignorant.

Quote: mrsuit31

In atlantic city a while back, i had been playing craps. It was mid roll with, with 6 as the point. thinking it was legal, i decided to raise my pass bet and the backup. the dealer literally threw my chips at me and started yelling. Is it illegal to raise your pass mid-roll? Im not %100 sure and was really taken back by his reaction.

General rules state that you may place a new pass line bet or add to your current pass line bet after a point is established as long as you keep within the table limits. You are better to make a come bet, but if you want to make a pass line bet with the puck "on" you are free to do so. Once placed it cannot be taken down even if it was placed after the point. Don't Pass is oppisite, you may take it down if you like after a point is established.

That being said, anhy casino may make "local" rules. It is possible the casino you were at did not allow it to protect themselves from people pass-posting the Don't Pass.

Quote: FleaStiff

That seems to be a dealer situation that the players are encountering more and more these days.
My various local Indian casinos are often filled with scowling floormen and BJ dealers who don't much care.

Situation with dice crews in Biloxi a while ago was so bad, I resolved to never enter the Isle of Capri again and to never enter any casino associated with that corporation. It was not just a few post-Katrina new hires who routinely would take the Come Bets on a Seven-Out, it was downright rude dice crews.

I am not sure whether dice crews change regularly (moving to different properties, etc.) or it is just different shifts, but I had a great experience at the Isle in Biloxi last summer. The crew never missed a bet, saved the odds correctly, and also made sure I understood that there was no vig taken on a buy bet if you took it down after a win. The table got extra attention from the suits when a gent showed up and bet $1100 across but they did not slow play down or anything.

I agree with you, though, and I understand why you won't play there...I don't go back to places that WANT to separate me from my money without making the play enjoyable. There are enough casinos around that I don't need to deal with rude dealers or scowling floor folks.

I don't know why they didn't let you add to the pass line bet. The house has the advantage at that point, as many have mentioned.

I have added too much to odds a couple of times on $3 tables and the dealers just quietly tell me to add $1 or whatever to my pass line bet. They didn't scream "no bet" or make a big deal of it, they just asked me to make it the correct bet.

I wonder if some of these guys just don't realize that you can control the table without being an a**clown. The best tables have a good box who keeps things smooth, corrects as necessary without being a control freak. Hit the back wall, sir. Keep those hands back, ma'am. We won' book a bet after they move.

Some people can make something so simple...so hard!!

Quote: RonC

I wonder if some of these guys just don't realize that you can control the table without being an a**clown. The best tables have a good box who keeps things smooth, corrects as necessary without being a control freak. Hit the back wall, sir. Keep those hands back, ma'am. We won' book a bet after they move.

Some people can make something so simple...so hard!!

I think some of them hear "control your table" in dealer school and think, "I get to tell people what to do" then start acting like the security guard who keeps failing the police test.

I have "trained" a few people for the Monte Carlo Nights if you want to call 20 mins of advice training and always stree "control your game, but don't be a jerk." This week I am training a crew who are working their own BJ games (I am on craps) and will stress it again. It is a fine line to walk, but easy to do as you pointed out. I know already one person will miss the point, there always is one.

Quote: mrsuit31

the dealer literally threw my chips at me and started yelling.

Depending on the casino in Atlantic City, it will have more or fewer dealers who do not fully understand the game. Did the box or floor have any input?

There should be no problem increasing the pass line bet. You cannot take away from a pass line bet after the come out, just like you can't increase the don't pass after a come out (yet you can remove it entirely).

The casino's HE after the point has been established with 5x odds are:

(6/24 * ((3/9 * 11) - (6/9 * 6)) + 8/24 * ((4/10 * 8.5) - (6/10 * 6)) + 10/24 * ((5/11 * 7) - (6/11 * 6)))/6 = 3.131 percent.

Without the odds, the HE is 18.788 percent! Good dealers will tell you to put the bet on the place instead so that you get paid better when you win or will put the bet one the line between the pass and the odds area to indicate that you are placing the point.

Actually, IMO, crews who do not do this to newbie players are dicks and do not deserve a tip. If you do place add a pass line bet after the point is established, it is only advantageous to you (vs the point) if you take more than 3x odds on the 4/10, 4x odds on the 5/9, or 5x odds on the 6/8.

Thanks for all of the info guys! I had thought that what i had done was legal but his reaction was pretty rediculous. i know that you can never decrease your pass once a point is established but i thought that i could increase, which is what i did. i figured that the guy was just a jackass, but they literally all kept eyeing me down as if i was going to be blacklisted.