UTH Question

Quote: DeMango

Quote: miplet

You just have to do the hands that are normally 4x. The EV of the preflop checked hands are the same.
link to original post

`
Yes but how much is your loss in value if when you have the advantage, you are only allowed to bet 3X instead of 4X?
link to original post

That's easy. Just go to the WoO page and multiply each 4x win (return) by 0.75, then sum up all of the differences and that is the loss to EV. After that, just work it into the HE and EoR.

ADDED: Or multiply them by 0.25 and just sum that up, saves the subtracting step.

Quote: DeMango

practicing on free UTH game on WoO. site. Got a RF!! odds about 30000-1 no?
link to original post

Closer to 31k, but yes. It's the same probability as getting one in seven stud would be.

Quote: JimRockford

Maybe I could have found a better thread but I wanted register my pet peeve about UTH. Don’t get me wrong, I like the game, I especially because you can get comped out of proportion to your action because most people play so poorly. However I REALLY don’t like that you can’t check your hole cards after the flop. I don’t see why I can’t confirm the suits of my J3 after I see a monochrome flop. I know I have made mistakes because of this.
link to original post

What do you mean you can't check your hole cards after the flop? Somewhere you play doesn't let you look at your cards after the flop even if you haven't bet yet?

Quote: ThisIsMyJam

Quote: JimRockford

Maybe I could have found a better thread but I wanted register my pet peeve about UTH. Don’t get me wrong, I like the game, I especially because you can get comped out of proportion to your action because most people play so poorly. However I REALLY don’t like that you can’t check your hole cards after the flop. I don’t see why I can’t confirm the suits of my J3 after I see a monochrome flop. I know I have made mistakes because of this.
link to original post

What do you mean you can't check your hole cards after the flop? Somewhere you play doesn't let you look at your cards after the flop even if you haven't bet yet?
link to original post

I haven’t played in years, but that was the rule at the Mirage the last time I played. Is that not standard?

Quote: ThisIsMyJam

Quote: JimRockford

Maybe I could have found a better thread but I wanted register my pet peeve about UTH. Don’t get me wrong, I like the game, I especially because you can get comped out of proportion to your action because most people play so poorly. However I REALLY don’t like that you can’t check your hole cards after the flop. I don’t see why I can’t confirm the suits of my J3 after I see a monochrome flop. I know I have made mistakes because of this.
link to original post

What do you mean you can't check your hole cards after the flop? Somewhere you play doesn't let you look at your cards after the flop even if you haven't bet yet?
link to original post

I’ve never had that issue. I always recheck.

Quote: JimRockford

Quote: ThisIsMyJam

Quote: JimRockford

Maybe I could have found a better thread but I wanted register my pet peeve about UTH. Don’t get me wrong, I like the game, I especially because you can get comped out of proportion to your action because most people play so poorly. However I REALLY don’t like that you can’t check your hole cards after the flop. I don’t see why I can’t confirm the suits of my J3 after I see a monochrome flop. I know I have made mistakes because of this.
link to original post

What do you mean you can't check your hole cards after the flop? Somewhere you play doesn't let you look at your cards after the flop even if you haven't bet yet?
link to original post

I haven’t played in years, but that was the rule at the Mirage the last time I played. Is that not standard?
link to original post

I can't speak to the procedures at the Mirage specifically, but at the other casinos I have played UTH, I have never been told I can't look at my cards at any point before I make my Play wager (or fold). I will typically hold my cards (usually on edge so that the faces are visible to me) from the time they are pushed to me until I make a Play wager or fold.

Now, after you put out the Play wager, yeah they don't want you touching the cards.

Quote: teliot

Okay -- I'm shutting down the code (for now). Just too much to let it keep running. I used to have a second super fast Ubuntu computer that I dedicated to these things, but with only my main computer running it just is so slow. Here are the results so far, you can see that there are some changes to the 4x strategy. For example, checking Q6s, Q7s and Q8o. The first raise with a Queen is Q8s.
link to original post

This part is consistent with Wizard’s basic strategy:
For UTH, 4x bet these hands: Q6s, Q7s and Q8o;
For HUH, 3x bet these hands: Q8s, Q9s, and Q10o.

However, if you use the HUH rules (which include a bad beat rule) for this calculation, will the 3x bet hands still be the same?

There seems to be conflicting information if there are other rule changes too, as in Head Up Hold 'em.

Can I get at least two people to say this is pure UTH with only the 4x lowered to 3x on the pre-flop raise?

I can back up DeMango that SP deals or dealt a game labeled as UTH (no bad beat bonus) with no 4x option. It was several months before DeMango posted, but I observed a dealer exposing 1 dealer card on the game, sat to play, played one hand and one hand only after not being allowed to 4x it pre-flop, on UTH.

I am absolutely 99.996% sure the table was labeled as UTH because I would have had no problem being restricted to 3x if it had actually been HUN.

Believe they also have HUH on a separate table don’t recall but this was certainly not a HUH table or Texas Holdem Bonus. Dealer/supervisor said they’d changed the rule several months prior, so that timeline would likely make it near a year at this point. Note that the dealer/supervisor mentioned it had been CHANGED, so again not HUH.

Quote: mcallister3200

I can back up DeMango that SP deals or dealt a game labeled as UTH (no bad beat bonus) with no 4x option.
link to original post

Thank you. With that confirmation, I updated my UTH program to have a 3x pre-flop raise.

To re-run every hand would take about five days to cycle through. However, thanks to Miplet's observation, I need to only run those hands that already a big raise. Currently I'm working on the 33 to AA pairs. I'll keep you posted.

For now, in digging around for my material on UTH, I find I at least analyzed the situation where the player plays the optimal 4x raise strategy, but on a 3x game. There the house edge (based on the Ante only) is 9.86% and the Element of Risk is 2.61%. So, this looks to be a very bad rule. Of course, strategy changes will bring down those numbers, but I still expect it to increase the house edge to about 5%.