Poll

1 vote (3.33%)
14 votes (46.66%)
1 vote (3.33%)
14 votes (46.66%)
5 votes (16.66%)
8 votes (26.66%)

30 members have voted

moses
moses
Joined: Sep 23, 2013
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Mission146odiousgambit
July 13th, 2021 at 9:03:13 PM permalink
A tough one? I guess Im not a very nice guy. There is no way on God's green earth I would ever intervene when it comes to someone else's money. I avoid engaging with strangers in a casino and dont like it when they try to engage with me. There are some people I see nearly everyday in a casino and have never offered more than a nod.

One time a sportsbook regular handed my lady friend and I two tickets to the McGregor fight against the boxer. Next day I offered to buy him lunch. He was insulted. So I pretty much keep my mouth shut as do most regulars around me.

I cant imagine intervention that would take that guys money. He'd kill ya.
Last edited by: moses on Jul 14, 2021
charliepatrick
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Mission146
July 15th, 2021 at 12:27:03 AM permalink
Quote: Gandler

...The one possible exception is if something shady is going on...So I guess my summary is, only report (or don't report) when it benefits the players unless there is something clearly (and overwhelmingly) illegal happening (some kind of cheating or colluding).

Many years ago at my local casino I reported a player who was post betting when he kept doing it (i.e. it wasn't a mistake). It was 5-card poker and I was next to him. I thought his bet had been increased from £5 to £10, and then he raised with a flush. Paying more attention, a few hands later I saw him do it again with a pair of Aces. I had a quiet word with the manager who then looked at the tapes.

In the good old days the casino was a social place to go, one knew all the dealers and managers, and many of the players. Occasionally one might get a free meal, they even organised a casino trip to the dogs once. The casino used to look after its customers. Sadly as they've become more commercial, those days have now gone.


I think the casino, for small values, prefer you didn't point out the mistakes (in your favour) as it affects the confidence of newly trained dealers and in the long run they typically get the money back as you just play longer. It is obviously unethical to search out such a dealer and hope they make mistakes in your favour; if one happens to come along then, like learner drivers on the road, be patient as they add up the cards etc!
billryan
billryan
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Mission146odiousgambit
July 15th, 2021 at 6:39:55 AM permalink
So you think playing at a break-in house, where new dealers tend to make mistakes, is unethical?
I ask again- would you people correct a dealer who was flashing his hole card? Which dealer mistakes is it ethical to exploit?
If a dealer is paying 3-2 on a 6-5 table, is that a mistake you correct or can you live with that one?
Mission146
Mission146
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charliepatrick
July 15th, 2021 at 6:53:32 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

So you think playing at a break-in house, where new dealers tend to make mistakes, is unethical?
I ask again- would you people correct a dealer who was flashing his hole card? Which dealer mistakes is it ethical to exploit?
If a dealer is paying 3-2 on a 6-5 table, is that a mistake you correct or can you live with that one?



He didn't say that, at least, as I interpreted his statement. He stated that it would be unethical to specifically seek out weak dealers in order to exploit mispays, paying on a player loss, not taking the player's money when the dealer has won...etc.

I disagree that it is unethical, but could understand why some people might feel that way. My position on it is that I am not responsible for the training of the dealers, much less did I personally do anything that would lead to the dealer making inaccurate pays, paying losses or not taking my money when the dealer has won.

Casinos take advantage of the fact that players play certain games sub-optimally all the time. I would even dare to go as far as say that the casino relies on them to do so, at least, for games with a very low house edge assuming optimal play.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
billryan
billryan
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Mission146
July 15th, 2021 at 9:23:34 AM permalink
Thanks for your reply but I'd like to hear from him. If he thinks it is unethical to seek out weak dealers, does he think it is unethical to play against break-in dealers who one can expect will make mistakes.
charliepatrick
charliepatrick
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MrCasinoGamesMission146odiousgambit
July 15th, 2021 at 9:43:08 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

...I'd like to hear from him...

I know there are different attitudes on this forum about what is and isn't ethical and don't really want to be drawn into that argument or exactly where the boundary lies.
Mission146
Mission146
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July 15th, 2021 at 9:56:25 AM permalink
Quote: charliepatrick

I know there are different attitudes on this forum about what is and isn't ethical and don't really want to be drawn into that argument or exactly where the boundary lies.



That makes you a smarter person that I am; that's for sure.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
MDawg
MDawg
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Mission146
July 15th, 2021 at 9:56:36 AM permalink
Dealer overpaid me one black 100 chip on a recent session on a small bet.

I was also underpaid one 500 chip on a larger bet.

I pointed out both instances immediately.

But I still can't see myself pointing out that table limit 3:2 BJ payout I received on a losing 20. That's just too much of a swing.
I tell you it痴 wonderful to be here, man. I don稚 give a damn who wins or loses. It痴 just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
Dieter
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Dieter 
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Mission146
July 15th, 2021 at 11:14:32 AM permalink
Quote: billryan


I ask again- would you people correct a dealer who was flashing his hole card? Which dealer mistakes is it ethical to exploit?



Protecting your hand from inadvertent exposure in the course of a card game is a fundamental concept. Like "According to Hoyle" basic. Sorry, my library isn't handy at the moment, or I'd track it down and quote it.

If a trained, licensed professional gambler, supervised by other trained, licensed professional gamblers, and employed by a consortium of professional gamblers to play the game is flashing, I believe it's either intentional, or their responsibility to notice and correct it.

I am their opponent in a card game.
It is not my responsibility to help them win.

If that seems overly harsh, let's not forget that it's their house, their game rules, their cards, they initially arbitrate any disputes, and some places have been known not to pay up if you manage to beat them at their own game.

What dealer mistakes is it ethical to exploit?
Any and all.
If you don't care to see the card, you can always look away or find another table.
May the cards fall in your favor.
DJTeddyBear
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Mission146Joeman
July 15th, 2021 at 12:19:44 PM permalink
I used to only say something if the error cost me money. Now I speak up whether it costs me or benefits me, and regardless of how it affects other players.

If I'm unaffected either way, I say nothing.

Mind you, lately other than poker, I only play craps. So it's unlikely that an error affects me one way and affects someone else the other way.

Back in the day when I used to play a variety of table games, I was playing with PaiGowDan and this exact situation came up. I got overpaid, and hesitated to say something. Only because it was Dan, I DID point out the error.

Later we discussed the error and he got me to admit that I pointed it out because he was there. When he asked why I would normally keep it, I said, "I figure I'd only end up losing it back anyway."

He responded, "Oh. So it's your plan to lose? Fine. Be a loser."

Talk about a punch in the gut to make a point. But I changed my ways.


And I still miss Dan.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁

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