Can I Buy-In for purple chips?
Say I want $1500 in purples, $1600 in blacks, and $300 in greens as part of a $3400 buy-in; I assume the $100 tables have purples, blacks, greens, reds, and white ones.
Just wondering if casinos only allow purples as payouts on bets and they can't be bought.
A favorite was during a session once I tried to do a partial color up for 2-3k in purple once when an unreasonable, miserable pc was taking it personally her table was losing and also unhappy with the dealer for it and she barked “no partial color ups,” so later I just walked with a ton of black at the end of the session to force a fill since she had made it personal first and when she barked at me to color up just turned and said “no partial color ups I’m good.”
All these properties were located outside of Las Vegas.
So I'd have to make ten $5 bets or five $10 bets in white chips that lost to get rid of them; winning bets will be matched with red chips but the white chips bet stays on for the next round.
If I had 50 black chips and I was trying to purple-ize them, I'd have to make $500, or $1,000 bets with black chips in hopes of winning as many purple chips as I can before the black chips disappear.
I'm assuming in my OP question that I can color-down from 3 purples to 15 black if I need to later without leaving the table.
Quote: ChumpChangeIf I have a few thousand dollars cash, will the casino allow the purchase of $500 chips as part of the buy-in?
Say I want $1500 in purples, $1600 in blacks, and $300 in greens as part of a $3400 buy-in; I assume the $100 tables have purples, blacks, greens, reds, and white ones.
Just wondering if casinos only allow purples as payouts on bets and they can't be bought.
This is a bad idea if you are card counting and I believe you are from your posts both here and another site. In short it draws attention and you want to do everything you can to AVOID attention.
If you buy in for $3400 in the manner described and then start betting green, you are basically alerting the pit that you will be betting bigger at some point. You don't want to unnecessarily tip off to this. Once the time comes let them try to figure out if you are betting bigger because you believe you are at an advantage, or whether you are chasing losses or parleying wins. That is kind of the 3 options when someone starts betting bigger.
You can always buy in multiple times and actually that sort of plays into chasing losses, which is exactly what you want them to think. Then you hit a few wins at max bet, maybe a couple double downs and exit at the shuffle or when the count tanks BEFORE they have had time to figure out which type of players you are.
Smaller buy ins (even if you have to do so multiple times) also means less chips in front of you when you are playing which draws attention and easier, quicker exits, possible without coloring up, which is my preference. But you have all those chips in front of you that you are describing, then win some more, it becomes almost impossible to not color up.
That seems kind of counter-intuitive to me. You should always want enough on the table for your max bet, since wouldn't it be an even bigger flag if you buy for more while still having a decent amount in front of you?Quote: mcallister3200There’s really no good reason for your initial buy in to be larger than your max bet if you’re starting with cash. Kewlj is suggesting to buy in a fair amount smaller than that yet even I believe.
I had a problem with partial coloring over at Silverton a few years back-- I was playing reds, and for some ridiculous reason, the floor insisted on all chips going out being same color. I ended up with something like 1500 on the table before I started stashing them in random pockets... and when my pockets were full, resorted to the next option I had: One of those giant like 52oz soda cups you can find at some gas stations. (...Got kicked off the table for that one, when she finally noticed.)Quote: mcallister3200A favorite was during a session once I tried to do a partial color up for 2-3k in purple once when an unreasonable, miserable pc was taking it personally her table was losing and also unhappy with the dealer for it and she barked “no partial color ups,” so later I just walked with a ton of black at the end of the session to force a fill since she had made it personal first and when she barked at me to color up just turned and said “no partial color ups I’m good.”
Quote: mcallister3200There’s really no good reason for your initial buy in to be larger than your max bet if you’re starting with cash. Kewlj is suggesting to buy in a fair amount smaller than that yet even I believe.
mcallister3200 has read too many of my post (or maybe I just post too much) and knows me too well. Let's hope he doesn't switch sides of the table. :/
I try to enter games with chips in hand, even if it is only a few green greens and I am betting $25 or $50 minimum. On occasions that my initial buy in is cash, I buy in for $100 when playing $25 or $200 if playing $50 minimum. That is 4 minimum wagers! Think back to when you were playing $5 tables. If someone came up to the table buying in for $20, the pit doesn't even waste time on them. They don't ask for a players card, they don't have to approve the buy-in. The dealer doesn't even have to call it out. They immediately KNOW that person is no threat and isn't going to be there long.
So it is the same exact situation when buying in for $100 at a $25 min table. Oh the dealer may have to announce your buy-in depending on location, but even if they do, the pit almost always just "okays" it from a far and dismisses you, just the same as the $20 buy in at a $5 table. THAT is the first impression! And first impressions are lasting impressions. It takes multiple buy-ins and larger bets for them to reconsider that first impression.
As for not having enough money on the table, you can always buy in for more. Like I said that is the sign of someone "chasing losses". It is very common for people to buy in again on double down situations. Now it is true you could get caught short if the count were to suddenly and drastically rise. Say, the count suddenly has risen to where I would bet $100 but I only have $50 or $75, or maybe some odd amount like $62.50 resulting from a blackjack....I just go all in, even if it is a little less than I would have otherwise bet. If I lose, I will buy in for a much larger amount and bet what the count calls for. This is when they might begin to reconsider that first impression, but again, it fits exactly with a player chasing losses.
Quote: VenthusUnless you're somewhere with high limits to begin with, you're probably getting enough attention just sitting at a 100min table that eyes are going to be on you, and purples are common enough that there probably won't be a fuss unless you immediately pocket it. (Leaving it in front of you invites a few other issues though... I usually just handwave it off by saying I'm too lazy to rebuy over and over.)
That seems kind of counter-intuitive to me. You should always want enough on the table for your max bet, since wouldn't it be an even bigger flag if you buy for more while still having a decent amount in front of you?
You’re not going to be considerably short if you buy in for your max bet. I’d suggest just pushing all in if I was slightly short rather than buying in for more in order to be able to play the spread like a robot. The one issue buying in short and all ins does cause is if you need to buy in for insurance mid hand can be a bit awkward.
Quote: mcallister3200You’re not going to be considerably short if you buy in for your max bet. I’d suggest just pushing all in if I was slightly short rather than buying in for more in order to be able to play the spread like a robot.
EXACTLY!
Quote: mcallister3200The one issue buying in short and all ins does cause is if you need to buy in for insurance mid hand can be a bit awkward.
If you start out with a neutral count, betting your minimum, any insurance opportunity is likely below the insurance threshold. Even if the count has risen slightly and it is right at the insurance threshold, your not giving up much to not take it 1 time.
The small buy-ins are only effective for getting into the game. Once the count rises significantly and you are betting more (and buying in for more) that is kind of over. At that point, I am already beginning to plan for my exit. :)
Quote: ChumpChangeI'm buying in for 25 bets and plan on playing for hours.
That’s all well and fine but, generally speaking, if they’re letting you just sit there and play counting for hours without even moving tables/pits, you’re either not betting enough for them to care (which is fine or maybe preferable depending on goals) or it’s likely a sign that you’re not playing a very strong game. This can be a bit location or floor supervisor dependent, but will mostly hold true for major gaming markets.
Of course you can do as you like. But I don’t understand why it’s difficult to get to the concept that if you have the 25 bets worth of cash in your pocket, whether or not you buy in all of it for chips right away or whether it’s 2, 4, 6 or 8 buy ins doesn’t affect your ability to play correctly. Heck if you go on a run right away and you bought in a bunch then you’ve just got a bunch of chips you never needed to buy in for.
Quote: ChumpChangeIf I cash out at $43,400, the casino will write me a check for $40,000 and I can keep my $3,400 in cash for my next session, and no CTR.
Yes, they should but don't expect every casino employee to understand that. A CTR is used to track CASH ONLY.
Quote: ChumpChangeIf I cash out at $43,400, the casino will write me a check for $40,000 and I can keep my $3,400 in cash for my next session, and no CTR.
Have I misunderstood that you are card counting or otherwise playing with an advantage? I ask because the things are describing, large buy ins, playing for hours on same table, intentional acquiring and playing with larger denominational chips (which are tracked) and now giving a casino all your information while requesting a check are all things that advantage players try extremely hard to avoid. These are all things that will lead to a very short career. If you are counting cards, the things you are listing are all things that should be on a "not to do" list.
Quote: kewljHave I misunderstood that you are cared counting or otherwise playing with an advantage? I ask because the things are describing, large buy ins, playing for hours on same table, intentional acquiring and playing with larger denominational chips (which are tracked) and now giving a casino all your information while requesting a check are all things that advantage players try extremely hard to avoid. These are all things that will lead to a very shirt career. If you are counting cards, the things you are listing are all things that should be on a "not to do" list.
So Kewl, is the goal to, at first, to hoard larger denomination chips, and buy in with chips, or always buy in with cash?
Quote: DeMangoSo Kewl, is the goal to, at first, to hoard larger denomination chips, and buy in with chips, or always buy in with cash?
No you don't want to "hoard" large denom chips. They are tracked closely. And if I win, I will cash out all chips except a small handful to enter the next time I play that location. That cash out might not be immediately after a large win, or may be broken up into several smaller cash outs, to minimize attention.
My goal is to enter the game and play with minimal pit interaction. A chip inventory and small cash buy-ins allows for that. And people misunderstand about a chip inventory. You don't need thousands of dollars in chips, which would require 10's of thousands in chips from multiple properties. All you need is a small handful of chips, 4-8 times your minimum wager. This allows you to get into the game without the dealer doing or announcing anything. And often with no interaction with pit. You have eliminated the first pit interaction.
Then at the end, when you leave, most pit bosses try to insist that you "color up" to the highest denomination. This may be partly so that they may count exactly what you are leaving with, but also I think it is so that they may control who gets to cash out those large chips. Indeed, players I have seen who decline to color up, attract more attention than players who just allow it, as the dealer inevitably calls the pit boss who then tries to convince the player to color up.
As far as the attempt to control who may cash out those large chips: For example when I've cashed out five thousand or twenty-five thousand dollar chips at the cage, they always check either on their computer screen or with a phone call to the pit you claim to have won the chips at, to make sure it was you who received the big chips, in addition to making certain that you owe no markers. And then if you try to cash out TOO much during a trip, they will threaten to temp close your credit line - as they would prefer that you deposit your winnings and not walk with them in cash or check.
I am not sure what would happen if some nobody who refused to identify himself at both the tables and the cage tried to cash a twenty-five or even just a five thousand dollar chip. Would definitely not be a smooth process.
This trip I have paid more attention at the cashier when cashing out chips and I do see that at least at some of the casinos (maybe all of them, I started looking closely just in the last week) they do place your chips, at least the chips that are $100. and higher, on this black pad which I assume verifies their authenticity via the RFID chip inside them.
Quote: DRichYes, they should but don't expect every casino employee to understand that. A CTR is used to track CASH ONLY.
True.
A lot of good advice here from KJ and mcallister.
Most casinos will want your name and SSN anywhere between 5-8K of buy-ins "just in case." If you don't comply, they may not let you buy in again or even let you continue play.
OP, If you're not an AP, none of this matters. If you are, it matters a lot.
Quote: ChumpChangeI'm not card counting. If I'm winning anything at all, the casino considers that an advantage in a world where winners are 86'ed. I can't believe how casinos in Connecticut are cracking down on red chip card counters with barely $200 on them. Total Nazis. I don't bet like a card counter, and my eyes aren't furtively glancing up and down the table trying to read all the other cards on the table (which is the biggest tell). I may get some peer pressure to become a card counter, and I may try it on the home games just to learn the culture, but that kind of play at the casino will draw heat instantly from the dealer himself.
My mistake. I thought you were card counting or otherwise playing with an advantage. I might have you confused with another poster.
The other day an Asian player plopped ten K cash on the table. By the time the dealer had counted it all, the player had already declined to present his passport, which he was holding right in his hand, but didn't want to present for some reason, so they actually handed him back all the money, at his request. But in this case the issue was the $10,000. threshold they were not going to ask him for his ID if it had been $9000.
He was told that if it was under $10,000. that he could get the chips with no ID, but he just asked for all of the money back. He then cashed in only $600. for six black chips. A lot of Asian players do it this way - buy in small to "test their luck" then buy in more if they lose the $600. Doesn't make much sense to me, because if they are super lucky they might not even need more. (But if they lose, they always buy in for more money anyway.)
Being super lucky: was the case with this guy.
There had not been a tie on the shoe yet, but I felt like one was due, and I plopped two hundred on the tie. This was my first tie bet of the shoe. I bet the tie very rarely, and hit for more than 1/8 times, more like 1/4 times is my overall record I would say. The new player mirrored me and placed $300. on the tie - tie ONLY bet like me. No one else bet the tie, just us two. It hit! and he got $2400. and I got $1600. I actually reduced to I think it was $150. for some reason, but he left it up - he left his full $300. up for a second bet, and it hit again. Tie repeater. So that was $3600. for me, and $4800. for him. In this case, he DID actually cash out and leave immediately with the almost five grand. I was impressed, in that most Asian players and most Baccarat players in general just keep playing until they lose. But I suppose he figured that he was going to buy in for ten grand anyway, now here he had made 50% in minutes so why stick around. The guy's wife looked at me like I was some demi god as the ties kept hitting. "How did you know?"
I've been playing past few days at my table (he comes to my table because he sees that I am winning consistently), with this special limits player who can and does go up to $40,000. a hand. He also sometimes places $5000. on the tie bet, which is pretty insane, but he has not hit it yet, at least not in front of me. I play just one session a day, usually three or four hours, then book with the win. It appears that he plays much longer hours, and is up and down a hundred or two hundred grand constantly.
But then also everyone remembers the times it hit four times in a row and you didn't even bet it once. I had a trip like that about a year ago, where I plopped something like seven grand on the bank and it tied four times. That was nerve racking. I left the bet up and FINALLY on the fifth try I won the bet, but looking back I can't believe I didn't put something on the tie too along the way. When it hits I often bet it either as a repeater or skip tie, especially if the shoe's patterns seem to indicate a tie at that position. I don't go by the casino's digital board in predicting ties - I have my own system on my paper score card, but if my system and the casino's coincide, then I almost always bet the tie at that moment.
Quote: MDawgAs some of you know, I've been in Vegas for almost a month now, playing almost daily. It's going well, although in the end - it's not what you win, but what you go home with that matters. So far, so great!
The other day an Asian player plopped ten K cash on the table. By the time the dealer had counted it all, the player had already declined to present his passport, which he was holding right in his hand, but didn't want to present for some reason, so they actually handed him back all the money, at his request. But in this case the issue was the $10,000. threshold they were not going to ask him for his ID if it had been $9000.
If the casino was doing its job they would have filed a SAR (Suspicious Activity Report) on the player.
Quote: DRichIf the casino was doing its job they would have filed a SAR (Suspicious Activity Report) on the player.
How do you know they didn't? (Assuming they knew his identity which they probably did).
Getting your information from a host is like an advantage player getting his AP information from a degenerate ploppy.Quote: MDawgI talked to my host at one of the MAJOR properties at the Strip and the host said, "flat" out - "we don't flat bet anyone." However, over fifteen years ago, I did know of a BJ player who had been flat bet at $25,000. a hand at this resort - no more no less, $25K a hand at blackjack - terrible odds for the player. My host said that they don't do that anymore. However, maybe what he meant was that they just throw people out, versus flat bet them. 😄 I didn't inquire further because I have a lifetime six figures win at this casino, and have only played at it a few years total in my life, so my record is already suspect given that my theoretical loss is MASSIVE versus my actual win.
Quote: MDawgHe was told that if it was under $10,000. that he could get the chips with no ID, but he just asked for all of the money back.
Technically, the casino was incorrect. The CTR is OVER $10,000, so a 10K buy-in is OK per gov't regs. $10,000.01 requires a CTR be filed.
So I can just go up to the cage with exactly $10K in chips and I can get a brick of bills with no CTR, right? Who needs structuring? LOL! Remember to tip the dealers before you get to the cage.
Quote: MDawgThen at the end, when you leave, most pit bosses try to insist that you "color up" to the highest denomination. This may be partly so that they may count exactly what you are leaving with, but also I think it is so that they may control who gets to cash out those large chips. Indeed, players I have seen who decline to color up, attract more attention than players who just allow it, as the dealer inevitably calls the pit boss who then tries to convince the player to color up.
I'd say it's more so they don't have to do unnecessary fills.
Buy-In with 2x $25,000 chips.
20 + 20 + 4 + 4+ 2 = 50 purples = $25,000
4 chocolates ($5K chips) = $20,000
20 + 20 = 40 blacks = $4,000
20 + 20 = 40 greens = $1,000
134 chips
Looks like when he bets 2 purples and wins, he gets paid a dark yellow/orange $1,000 chip. (I'm only 4 minutes in at this point.)
BLACKJACK EPISODE #4 $50K BUY-IN WINNING SESSION $500 -$1700 Per Hand NICE COMEBACK LOTS OF DOUBLES
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiH0p4LNMEU
Quote: 21formeTechnically, the casino was incorrect. The CTR is OVER $10,000, so a 10K buy-in is OK per gov't regs. $10,000.01 requires a CTR be filed.
Yes, you are correct.
Quote: kewljHow do you know they didn't? (Assuming they knew his identity which they probably did).
I have no idea if they did or not. Most casinos ignore it. You don't need a player name to file a SAR.
