DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
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July 28th, 2020 at 9:24:34 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

I don't understand how the Max Aggregate isn't illegal.



It is not illegal as long as they notify you of it. It is your choice whether to play it or not. If there is nothing on the table stating it they will have to pay you.
Living longer does not always infer +EV
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
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Thanks for this post from:
ChumpChange
July 28th, 2020 at 1:30:15 PM permalink
Quote: sabre

There was a thread on here not too long ago with a player going over the payout limit at the Flamingo. Only problem was the placard detailing the limit wasn't on the table. When informed of this the floor grabbed it from another table, put it on the player's table and told the player "too bad". NGCB took about 15s to rule in the player's favor.

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/big-wins/28555-paigow-bonus-casino-did-not-pay-full-amount-as-shown-on-the-table/

I take it back ... it took almost 60 days for the player to get paid.



I wrote a short article about them here:

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/Casino-MAPs/

And Armyegad (the thread you linked to) was kind enough to let me interview him about it for an LCB article you can find here:

https://lcb.org/news/editorials/straight-up-attempted-casino-fraud
Vultures can't be choosers.
DeMango
DeMango
Joined: Feb 2, 2010
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July 28th, 2020 at 2:27:26 PM permalink
I would hope those tables with allegedly $2000 antes need some serious signage. Optimal play resulting in 4 OAK results in $800,000 payout. Optimal play resulting in a SF has a payout of $1,200,000! Royal Flush would produce $8,000,000.

This is in accordance with proper basic strategy betting as outlined on Wizard of Odds.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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July 28th, 2020 at 4:59:54 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

It is not illegal as long as they notify you of it. It is your choice whether to play it or not. If there is nothing on the table stating it they will have to pay you.

On the same exact table they also notify me of different odds amounts for the payouts given the also posted table limits. I.E. Conflicting signage. On one hand you have "Max $100" and on the felt itself it reads "500:1"... thus if you $100 ante, and 3x each spot, $1000 * 500 = $500,000. Then you put a sign up next to it that says "well, even though all that other stuff is written on the same table, we're not gonna pay you 500:1 even though it says 500:1."

They shouldn't be allowed to advertise $100 table limit and 500:1 odds if they can't/don't/won't pay it.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
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July 28th, 2020 at 5:05:43 PM permalink
Quote: Romes

On the same exact table they also notify me of different odds amounts for the payouts given the also posted table limits. I.E. Conflicting signage. On one hand you have "Max $100" and on the felt itself it reads "500:1"... thus if you $100 ante, and 3x each spot, $1000 * 500 = $500,000. Then you put a sign up next to it that says "well, even though all that other stuff is written on the same table, we're not gonna pay you 500:1 even though it says 500:1."

They shouldn't be allowed to advertise $100 table limit and 500:1 odds if they can't/don't/won't pay it.



I agree, or at least have something with the max agg. sign that states the maximum amount that could be bet while still ensuring the full return of the pay table.
Vultures can't be choosers.
Deucekies
Deucekies
Joined: Jan 20, 2014
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ChumpChange
August 1st, 2020 at 1:50:57 PM permalink
Quote: sabre

Isn't it much worse than that? Isn't it a table max aggregate? There can't be two royals in MS, but there can be two 7 card straight flushes in Pai Gow. I believe the players are paid starting with the dealer's left, and once the max is reached nobody else gets paid.



Thats not how table aggregates work. In a table aggregate situation, all players at the table are paid an amount proportionate to the size of their bet.

Example:
Player 1: SCSF with $25 up. Full pay: $200,000
Player 2: SCSF with $10 up. Full pay: $80,000
Player 3: Trips with $15 up. Full pay: $45
Total payout without an aggregate: $280,045

Player 1: 200,000/280,045 = 71.42%
Player 2: 80,000/280,045 = 28.56%
Player 3: 45/280,045 = 0.02%

$25,000 Table Aggregate
Player 1: $25,000 × 71.42% = $17,855
Player 2: $25,000 × 28.56% = $7,140
Player 3: $25,000 × 0.02% = $5
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland. And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with. - AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm

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