Should Casino Chips be a thing of the past?
Poll
 | 2 votes (6.06%) | ||
| | 28 votes (84.84%) | ||
| | 3 votes (9.09%) | ||
| No votes (0%) |
33 members have voted
Having said that, however, when I visit Vegas I want to go to Sin City not a church social. While I'm too old (and too married) to indulge in all of life's illicit pleasures, I say the more vices the better. People should should be able to smoke, vape, drink, gamble, do drugs (within reason) and engage in legalized prostitution.
Would this be a good thing? Probably not ... but that's sort of the point.
Quote: GialmereI'd be more interested in a poll on smoking. I do think that casinos should be more accommodating to nonsmokers. I actually felt embarrassed visiting San Manuel casino. It's bigger than the MGM Grand and yet the nonsmoking area is a small room (about the size of a gift shop) filled with slot machines. Yikes!
Having said that, however, when I visit Vegas I want to go to Sin City not a church social. While I'm too old (and too married) to indulge in all of life's illicit pleasures, I say the more vices the better. People should should be able to smoke, vape, drink, gamble, do drugs (within reason) and engage in legalized prostitution.
Would this be a good thing? Probably not ... but that's sort of the point.
As long as their activities don't hurt me. Don't want ANY second hand smoke or abnormal behavior due to drugs.
This one is up to the casino or state. 50/50 25/75, people are fine with. Not much for debate unless you want 100 non-smoking, then buy a casino or talk to state. Talking to state, fine but unpleasant legislating, because if business decision so wonderful, the casino would change without being told.Quote: GialmereI'd be more interested in a poll on smoking. I do think that casinos should be more accommodating to nonsmokers. I actually felt embarrassed visiting San Manuel casino. It's bigger than the MGM Grand and yet the nonsmoking area is a small room (about the size of a gift shop) filled with slot machines. Yikes!
Having said that, however, when I visit Vegas I want to go to Sin City not a church social. While I'm too old (and too married) to indulge in all of life's illicit pleasures, I say the more vices the better. People should should be able to smoke, vape, drink, gamble, do drugs (within reason) and engage in legalized prostitution.
Would this be a good thing? Probably not ... but that's sort of the point.
There’s no reason for an exception. Business licenses are issued for other businesses and they can’t flip the bird to a no smoking edict. If they do, the business license is pulled.
It’s a long over due change. NYC went thru the same thing when smoking was banned in bars and restaurants. Business actually went up.
Quote: TDVegasOn casino smoking...politicians have no back bone. No smoking bans in office buildings, stadiums, arenas, restaurants and other public spaces were instituted for public health reasons.
There’s no reason for an exception. Business licenses are issued for other businesses and they can’t flip the bird to a no smoking edict. If they do, the business license is pulled.
It’s a long over due change. NYC went thru the same thing when smoking was banned in bars and restaurants. Business actually went up.
I sold my niteclub when NYC banned smoking. Several customer focus groups indicated we would take a huge hit. I was getting burnt out and welcomed the sale, but business a year later was slightly up. A lot of people bitched but still came and a whole new subset came out for the first time. What really annoyed me was just two years earlier, the city mandated we put in a new air circulation system that they helped us to finance. We still owed over $15,000 when they announced the ban. Obviously, the new owners weren't interested in paying off a system they had zero use for so it came out of my partners and my share.
It was amazing how quickly the anti-smoking movement became a tidal wave.
Quote: billryanI sold my niteclub when NYC banned smoking. Several customer focus groups indicated we would take a huge hit. I was getting burnt out and welcomed the sale, but business a year later was slightly up. A lot of people bitched but still came and a whole new subset came out for the first time. What really annoyed me was just two years earlier, the city mandated we put in a new air circulation system that they helped us to finance. We still owed over $15,000 when they announced the ban. Obviously, the new owners weren't interested in paying off a system they had zero use for so it came out of my partners and my share.
It was amazing how quickly the anti-smoking movement became a tidal wave.
That is what upset me about the NYS smoking ban. Those systems really helped. I prefer nonsmoking, but it was seriously just 2 years that the bars got out of those systems.
As to casinos the way I see the problem is in Vegas nobody wants to be first. In most other places you have little choice so casino says take it or leave it. But sooner or later I see it happening, can't cater to 16% of the population long term.
I'd be curious to know how much revenue that 16% is bringing in. I'd bet that it is considerably more than 16% of the total. I see smokers being more likely to have a gambling problem than non-smokers.Quote: AZDuffmanAs to casinos the way I see the problem is in Vegas nobody wants to be first. In most other places you have little choice so casino says take it or leave it. But sooner or later I see it happening, can't cater to 16% of the population long term.
FYI, the Palace casino in Biloxi is the only smoke free casino among a dozen or so smoking casinos in the area. It still appears to be doing OK after 9 years. But none of the other casinos have followed suit.
Quote: billryanI sold my niteclub when NYC banned smoking. Several customer focus groups indicated we would take a huge hit. I was getting burnt out and welcomed the sale, but business a year later was slightly up. A lot of people bitched but still came and a whole new subset came out for the first time. What really annoyed me was just two years earlier, the city mandated we put in a new air circulation system that they helped us to finance. We still owed over $15,000 when they announced the ban. Obviously, the new owners weren't interested in paying off a system they had zero use for so it came out of my partners and my share.
It was amazing how quickly the anti-smoking movement became a tidal wave.
Yep. Unintended consequence. You lay out money and they ban smoking. You are left with the bill and they shrug their shoulders.
I agree...not right or fair. They should have worked out a deal with a tax break or something. Roll back any business fees or a “split the difference” cash payment.
Quote: VegasriderThe Atlantis Casino in Reno has a smokefree Sports and Racebook, and its a decent size book. Combine it with the poker room that is adjacent to the book, that entire area is non smoking. Kudos to the Atlantis. Wish other casinos in Reno would follow their lead.
It’s a tired line that they will lose business. A gambler who smokes is not stopping his gambling because he has to light up outside.
The big guns in Vegas might be afraid of losing some Asian whales who chain smoke like a tazmanian devil....but my money says they put “gamble before smoke”.
In any event...the mandate is a hypocritical one. If we as a government say no smoking in restaurants, offices, arenas, shopping, retail because “public health issue”....then they really have no argument to say “it’s ok to smoke within a casino building with many others around”.
Money trumps health (in their mind)...at least they should admit it.
Quote: VegasriderI remember the days of flying, domestic and international, playing live poker, going to nightclub, restaurants and bars. All places where people smoked. Eventually they all went nonsmoking. Everyone is still flying, and visiting those businesses where they use to smoke. Casino will eventually get there. Its the last hold out.
It depends on the state, some states still have smoking bars and clubs and restaurants.....
Smoking bans vary drastically by state, some have virtually none (rare now) and some its banned virtually everywhere....
In states where smoking is allowed, smokers almost always choose to go to bars and clubs that allow smoking (versus non smoking competitors). Restaurants it's not as clear as people just go there for the food, and many people do not like to smoke when eating anyway.
But, casinos do seem to have unique leverage over smoking allowances, because even in super anti-smoking NJ they managed to keep smoking in casinos (virtually the only place you can smoke inside).
Flying is unique, so it's not a totally fair comparison, because there is usually no alternative than to fly (I do know some smokers who will drive 8 hours over taking a 1 hour flight just to smoke). But, for many types of distance travel, there are no alternatives so smokers just have to suck it up (or use smokeless tobacco, you can dip and chew on planes, or other newer nicotine products).
Of course, in RI, gambling and taxes on cigarettes comprise a large portion of state government revenue.
The state is forced to perform a balancing act. They need to tailor laws such that they do not harm the state's biggest self-interest: revenue.
Nothing about smoking and gambling has anything to do with how they harm or benefit the people.
Cigarette taxes are carefully crafted so that state revenue is not adversely impacted, most often with an eye to the rates in neighboring states. For years the cheapest cigarettes nearby were in New Hampshire, so trips to a state-government run store just over the line north of Massachusetts (conveniently with it's own dedicated exit and turnaround on the Interstate) was where a lot of folks went for liquor, cigarettes, and (a long time ago) for the only legal lottery in the northeast.
Banning cigarettes would of course promote black market business, but over time it would significantly reduce consumption, and in the long term promote public health. But since it would dry up a good source of state tax revenue, it would never happen.
Finally, the harmful effects of both cigarettes and gambling impact mostly lower income, disadvantaged, and minority communities. But the politicians who constantly cater to these groups will, of course, do nothing to restrict these industries since they provide such a rich source of government income to pay the salaries, pensions and benefits of themselves, their families, and friends. Hypocrisy.
Quote: racquetWhen RI opened it's casinos years ago they needed to pass a separate state law to exempt casinos from the universal ban on smoking in any public venue. The exemption passed easily. RI currently offers smoke-free gambling only in high-limit areas. Rather than smoking areas being the exception, non-smoking areas are limited.
Of course, in RI, gambling and taxes on cigarettes comprise a large portion of state government revenue.
The state is forced to perform a balancing act. They need to tailor laws such that they do not harm the state's biggest self-interest: revenue.
Nothing about smoking and gambling has anything to do with how they harm or benefit the people.
Cigarette taxes are carefully crafted so that state revenue is not adversely impacted, most often with an eye to the rates in neighboring states. For years the cheapest cigarettes nearby were in New Hampshire, so trips to a state-government run store just over the line north of Massachusetts (conveniently with it's own dedicated exit and turnaround on the Interstate) was where a lot of folks went for liquor, cigarettes, and (a long time ago) for the only legal lottery in the northeast.
Banning cigarettes would of course promote black market business, but over time it would significantly reduce consumption, and in the long term promote public health. But since it would dry up a good source of state tax revenue, it would never happen.
Finally, the harmful effects of both cigarettes and gambling impact mostly lower income, disadvantaged, and minority communities. But the politicians who constantly cater to these groups will, of course, do nothing to restrict these industries since they provide such a rich source of government income to pay the salaries, pensions and benefits of themselves, their families, and friends. Hypocrisy.
The government long ago started taking the most profit from cigarettes. They do not want people to quit, they want max revenue. People who think otherwise are fooling themselves.
Quote: AZDuffmanThe government long ago started taking the most profit from cigarettes. They do not want people to quit, they want max revenue. People who think otherwise are fooling themselves.
Its not just the taxes.
Annual payments from the Master Settlment makes it profitable to states when tobacco companies are profitable.
Its reason that the government cracks down on vaping and nicotine alternatives.
Also, smokers save SS and Medicare money (by dying younger).
If everyone quit smoking, the government would be in trouble.
1. Dice hitting chips
2. Chips hitting dice (rare, but it happens)
3. Late bets getting thrown in
4. Buyins when shooter has dice
5. Colorups when shooter has dice
6. Arguments about bets on the center table
7. Shooters messing up the layouts with fast throws
8. Dealer errors
9. Money thrown on the table
10. Not hitting the back wall because don't players built a great wall on the DP line
Quote: GandlerIts not just the taxes.
Annual payments from the Master Settlment makes it profitable to states when tobacco companies are profitable.
Its reason that the government cracks down on vaping and nicotine alternatives.
Also, smokers save SS and Medicare money (by dying younger).
If everyone quit smoking, the government would be in trouble.
Agree, except I was kind of lumping the MSA in with taxes. MSA ends in what, 3-4 years?
1. Dice hitting chips
2. Chips hitting dice (rare, but it happens)
3. Late bets getting thrown in
4. Buyins when shooter has dice
5. Colorups when shooter has dice
6. Arguments about bets on the center table
7. Shooters messing up the layouts with fast throws
8. Dealer errors
9. Money thrown on the table
10. Not hitting the back wall because don't players built a great wall on the DP line
Very good points! I also think of late bets in roulette and trickery in blackjack (palming bets, etc) being eliminated.
Take craps, for example. With computer betting you'd eliminate the base dealers. The game could be run by the stickman and the boxman who would turn computer betting on and off.
No more base dealers to place bets or to change $$ or chips.
Quote: utahslim1If all betting is on a tablet, why leave your house ?
Because you still throw and bet on live dice.
Quote: alan.mendelsonBecause you still throw and bet on live dice.
The problem is you have way fewer people per table. And generally people want the cheques. As others said, if it is all on a tablet just bet online.
I will repeat, local casino installed chequeless BJ tables. They had to rip them out in less than a year. Table game players want the table game experience.
Quote: AZDuffmanThe problem is you have way fewer people per table. And generally people want the cheques. As others said, if it is all on a tablet just bet online.
I will repeat, local casino installed chequeless BJ tables. They had to rip them out in less than a year. Table game players want the table game experience.
Not everyone likes strawberry ice cream. If you need chips/cheques then play at a casino with them.
I would prefer a live dice table without chips/cheques and hands and cash getting in the way of a fast game.
Don't turn this into a discussion about dice influencing because it has nothing to do with dice influencing.
If a casino can accidentally put $10k in comp dollars on your players account, they can easily accidentally take away your balance too. No thanks for electronic balance except for tje gaming machines
Quote: VegasriderI sure hate to trust the casino with relying them to have total control of my account. Accounts can easily be hacked, erased or frozen by the casino. I would feel more secure holding a chip in hand. Doesn't mean I need or will cash it everytime, but its easy enough to keep a few $500, yellow bird or flag in your pocket or take it home with you.
If a casino can accidentally put $10k in comp dollars on your players account, they can easily accidentally take away your balance too. No thanks for electronic balance except for tje gaming machines
This could relieve your concerns: suppose you take cash to an ATM and purchase a ticket. Then at the gaming pit you choose your position at the table you want to play at, or you enter your ticket directly into the computer at your playing station.
Who says it must be linked to your player's card? It can be completely anonymous just as play at any slot machine.
Shoot to win craps is bubble craps without chips.
These games find a niche. Whether the current situation transforms us into a chip less casino....I doubt it but I wouldn’t fight it.
Quote: alan.mendelsonNot everyone likes strawberry ice cream. If you need chips/cheques then play at a casino with them.
I would prefer a live dice table without chips/cheques and hands and cash getting in the way of a fast game.
Don't turn this into a discussion about dice influencing because it has nothing to do with dice influencing.
A good craps table gets 60-80 rolls an hour, that is plenty fast for most people.
Who brought up dice influence? Not me.
With pressing. Half press. Taking down etc may be a little more cumbersome than throwing your chips in calling your bets
Quote: TDVegasRoll to win craps by Aruze gaming is craps without chips.
Shoot to win craps is bubble craps without chips.
These games find a niche. Whether the current situation transforms us into a chip less casino....I doubt it but I wouldn’t fight it.
It really comes down to this: do you really want to handle filthy dirty disgusting chips?
Quote: alan.mendelsonIt really comes down to this: do you really want to handle filthy dirty disgusting chips?
Versus a computer terminal?
YES
How many things are just wrong? No hand washing. Chip in mouth.
Every time I finish play in a casino I always wash my hands. And I can never get the chip in mouth image out of my mind.
And some of you put those chips in your pockets and bring them home?
Yuck.
Quote: mcallister3200Are the terminals, where the same terminal is getting constantly touched by different people, really going to be regularly thoroughly sanitized and significantly better? Maybe for a short period of time, same with they may clean chips regularly for a short period of time but won’t last. If like me you’ve noticed that the same bartop video machine can have the exact same buttons stick for months at a time and never get cleaned unless you do it yourself, you know that chipless terminals would not really be any cleaner or safer once things go back to “normal.”
Good question
When I use ATMs now I use a tissue to touch the buttons.
Quote: alan.mendelson
Who says it must be linked to your player's card? It can be completely anonymous just as play at any slot machine.
I was using the players card as an example as casinos have been known to make mistakes towards posting accounts.
Quote: alan.mendelsonWhen I think about casino chips this vivid memory hits me: I was in the men's room at the Bicycle Casino near LA. I finished my business and I was washing my hands. In the mirror in front of me I see a guy come out of the toilet stall WITH A CHIP CLENCHED BETWEEN HIS TEETH. He doesn't stop to wash his hands and just walks out.
How many things are just wrong? No hand washing. Chip in mouth.
Every time I finish play in a casino I always wash my hands. And I can never get the chip in mouth image out of my mind.
And some of you put those chips in your pockets and bring them home?
Yuck.
You do the same thing with currency.
Quote: AZDuffmanYou do the same thing with currency.
I've seen people chew currency. I've seen one poker player chew and swallow the pocket Kings he lost with in a poker room. It got stuck in his throat and he was using a coat hanger to get it out.
Quote: alan.mendelsonIt really comes down to this: do you really want to handle filthy dirty disgusting chips?
Someone who is willing to risk their health to get their gambling fix is concerned at germs on a chip?
With casino chips there is an option.
Give me the option, please.
There are so many advantages for players and for casinos to be chipless I can't understand why this is being debated?
If you think you won't be anonymous anymore relax... the chipless systems can be anonymous just like the slot machines you use other people's cards on to get their free play. LOL
Quote: alan.mendelsonYou're right about currency bur there isn't an option sometimes.
With casino chips there is an option.
Give me the option, please.
You have the option. Go play slots or one of the new table games with terminals. Are you going to not touch anything else in the casino? You will be sitting in that dirty chair, leaning on the dirty table, who knows what else. You might be better to stay home.
Quote: AZDuffmanYou do the same thing with currency.
Which is why many of us avoid currency.
And, why I also support casinos moving away from cash to an electronic payment system for credits.
Quote: GandlerWhich is why many of us avoid currency.
And, why I also support casinos moving away from cash to an electronic payment system for credits.
Been handling currency all my life, No issues. Anyone afraid of touching currency call me, I will pick up and safely dispose of it.
Quote: AZDuffmanBeen handling currency all my life, No issues. Anyone afraid of touching currency call me, I will pick up and safely dispose of it.
I mean its pretty common to be card only.
I only use my debit cards for everything (don't beleive on credit cards).
Many places are going cashless. Casinos are actually the rare exception in this regard (they tend to be an exception in many categories, smoking, etc...).
Casinos will want and need to open long before the software and hardware changes will be in place, along with training of dealers and floors (if these job titles are meant to endure with "chipless" gambling). No casino is going to postpone opening until their programming staff writes the code and their carpenters build whatever these new tables will look like. Never mind the financial enhancements needed in order to electronically take money (can I still bring cash to the table?) and tally up the losses.
If this were a viable method to gamble, people would have long ago stopped coming to casinos.
Gamblers are not the smartest people in the world. Nobody that takes covid-19 seriously will ever walk into a casino again, and probably not into a restaurant, restroom or hotel room. Wait for the sudden explosion of travel that occurs when cooped up people are either "allowed" to get out, or just say the hell with it and do so anyway. Where's the least practical place to go and celebrate? Bars and... casinos!
The enthusiasm and excitement of getting back in the world again, especially with the onset of warm weather and spring fever, will overwhelm any Nanny State attempt to demand that we behave ourselves.
Fear of corona virus will be no more a consideration than any of the other risks that we face every day. Especially when an opportunity to consider the true facts of this pandemic are documented and published. Don't be in a nursing home. Don't go to a hospital. Don't be in prison. Otherwise? Don't worry. You are safe. Or at least as safe as you ever were in a world that's full of a lot of ways to get sick or die.
Quote: alan.mendelsonIt really comes down to this: do you really want to handle filthy dirty disgusting chips?
No...I don’t.
I’m fine transitioning to no chips.
When first produced by the Aztecs, the food-of-the-gods was in ornate form and served very much like Flags or Guytons in a casino's chip inventory.
The point of all this is simple" Things Change.
Will chips continue? Yes. Too necessary to even consider an overnight transformation to some new fangled system.
Will anyone be worried about a virus a year from now? No.
Quote: racquetThe marketplace will determine the answers to these questions
I agree with that phrase.
Quote: FleaStiffI love chocolate.
When first produced by the Aztecs, the food-of-the-gods was in ornate form and served very much like Flags or Guytons in a casino's chip inventory.
The point of all this is simple" Things Change.
Will chips continue? Yes. Too necessary to even consider an overnight transformation to some new fangled system.
Will anyone be worried about a virus a year from now? No.
It will not be overnight, but eventually chips will be phased out.
It may not be for decades. But, automation will eventually catch up with even casinos.
