Don't Pass moved to Place Bet?
Thanks
Sometimes a dark side bettor will move a don't-pass point of six or eight to a place bet, because they are so much easier to make than a four or ten.
Also, a Dark side don't come bettor may say "no action" if a six or eight is rolled.
It's a strategy move that can be used whenever an "easy to make" number becomes the point that the dark side bettor is going against.
Quote: ElectricDreamswhy the heck would you take down the bet?! There is absolutely no reason to do so!
Heck, I'll gladly reimburse you and take it over.
Quote: PaigowdanYes...
Sometimes a dark side bettor will move a don't-pass point of six or eight to a place bet, because they are so much easier to make than a four or ten.
Also, a Dark side don't come bettor may say "no action" if a six or eight is rolled.
It's a strategy move that can be used whenever an "easy to make" number becomes the point that the dark side bettor is going against.
All I can say is, if my "point" was 7 (as it is for a Don't bettor who survives the comeout), and I took my bet DOWN, I should be led gently from the table and be given a glass of warm milk and some cookies.
Quote: DeMangoSo he is taking a bet where he has a better than 9% advantage to one that is 1.52% against him. BRILLIANT!!!
This is one part of the game I enjoy. I am a pass line/full odds, come bet/full odds guy. Nothing else. While that gets kind of boring, I love watching some of the crazy bets people make. And it's even more fun when they hit! It's fun to watch!
Quote: YoyomamaThis is one part of the game I enjoy. I am a pass line/full odds, come bet/full odds guy. Nothing else. While that gets kind of boring, I love watching some of the crazy bets people make. And it's even more fun when they hit! It's fun to watch!
Yeah, me too. I was playing craps at the new River City Casino in St. Louis a few weeks ago, and this guy game up, bought in for $200, and proceeded to make the most complicated series of bets I'd ever seen a person make at one time. He put up horn bets, place bets, pass line bets, along with using terms I'd never heard before for various prop bets in the middle.
It was crazy. He stuck around for a while, purely by the fact all the hedging he was doing lengthened his stay, but man, I don't know why he felt the need to do all that.
On a $10 table, the 6 and 8 are established as points on 10 of every 36 come out rolls, so beautiful 1.364 house advantage turns into a 1.364 + 10/36 x .1061 = 4.31 percent HA. He's better off just riding the 5 and 9. Yuk.
Quote: ElectricDreamsYeah, me too. I was playing craps at the new River City Casino in St. Louis a few weeks ago, and this guy game up, bought in for $200, and proceeded to make the most complicated series of bets I'd ever seen a person make at one time. He put up horn bets, place bets, pass line bets, along with using terms I'd never heard before for various prop bets in the middle.
It was crazy. He stuck around for a while, purely by the fact all the hedging he was doing lengthened his stay, but man, I don't know why he felt the need to do all that.
Then there's the superstitions (probably a better term). This guy has $50 on the hard 8 and it hits. He says "let it ride" because hard 8's repeat. Well this time it didn't.
Agreed. Its simply that often dealers encourage it. Many players think that a point of Six or Eight is "bad" for a Wrong Bettor. Well, as a Wrong Bettor I might prefer the point to be the harder to make 4 or 10, but once the Wrong Bettor has survived that initial ComeOut Roll... he has the advantage no matter what the point is. The Wrong Bettor thinks fate has somehow cheated him by giving him a bet against an easy point. Well, the only persons cheating him are himself and the dealer who suggests it.Quote: ElectricDreamsafter the come out roll, the dice odds are in the don't bettor's favor. Even on the six or eight. You made it past the come out roll, why the heck would you take down the bet?!
Quote: boymimboOn a $10 table, the 6 and 8 are established as points on 10 of every 36 come out rolls
Does that outcome change when the denomination changes?
Quote: tgarrettcpaTo anybody on the dark side, I am curious to know what betting systems you use?
I only play the Don't.
I typically make a series of don't pass and don't come bets (laying 10-20x odds where available) until I'm behind on three or four different point numbers. Then I ride them out. I usually stop putting bets down after I lose two or three of them. If all the numbers hit I wait for the dice to pass to the next shooter. My bankroll per session is about enough to cover me for 10 straight losing bets at buy-in, which has about a 1 in 10,000 chance of happening.
I used to place the six and/or eight after the come-out; don't do that anymore. I used to hedge the come-out with hardway bets; don't do that anymore either. The table's either going to go my way or it's not, hedges be damned.
Quote: 7outlineawayI used to hedge the come-out with hardway bets; don't do that anymore either. The table's either going to go my way or it's not, hedges be damned.
(I play the right way) - Sometimes I'll throw down a nickel on craps during a come-out... but I always feel dirty inside afterward.
Here is a better bet - $25 on the don't pass, a 6 or 8 comes, put a $24 place bet on the 6 or the 8. If a 7 comes you win $1 if the point comes you win $3 - notice that you don't lose anything.
It's a dumb bet but for the scared don't players it is a good hedge and it is better than picking it up or making a place only bet.
Quote: 7outlineawayI only play the Don't.
I typically make a series of don't pass and don't come bets (laying 10-20x odds where available) until I'm behind on three or four different point numbers. Then I ride them out. I usually stop putting bets down after I lose two or three of them. If all the numbers hit I wait for the dice to pass to the next shooter. My bankroll per session is about enough to cover me for 10 straight losing bets at buy-in, which has about a 1 in 10,000 chance of happening.
Actually, counting the comeout decisions, your chances of losing ten straight are about one in 890. If you are only counting point losses, about one in 8205. One of the attractive things about darkside betting is that when you lose the comeout, it's only the flat bet you lose, and once a point is established and you have laid your odds, you are favored to win. The biggest danger in darkside betting is to lose a few points early, since you're laying the long end.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA
Quote: MartinHere is a better bet - $25 on the don't pass, a 6 or 8 comes, put a $24 place bet on the 6 or the 8. If a 7 comes you win $1 if the point comes you win $3 - notice that you don't lose anything.
It's a dumb bet but for the scared don't players it is a good hedge and it is better than picking it up or making a place only bet.
If the player is "scared", why bet $25 in the first place? Hedging reduces volatility, but also adds expected loss. Betting minimum on the line lowers volatility AND reduces expected loss.
By making that place bet, you turn an ev of +$2.27 into +$1.91, so you're giving away almost 16% of your positive ev.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA
Quote: DeMangoSo he is taking a bet where he has a better than 9% advantage to one that is 1.52% against him. BRILLIANT!!!
Or, to put it in money terms, turning an ev of +$.455 into -$.18 or -$.36.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA
I once had a guy say I was very "brave" because I laid odds against the 6. That's the problem with some (maybe a lot) of players - they don't have a clue regarding where the risk is.
