Wizard
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Wizard
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August 10th, 2019 at 1:57:54 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

That rule change was implemented within hours of this discussion. Coincidence? You decide.



To quote Bugs Bunny, I think it's a coinkydink (sp?)
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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August 10th, 2019 at 2:34:04 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

To quote Bugs Bunny, I think it's a coinkydink (sp?)

Said the guy who thought luscious sweets obscure Pine Street reference was all just a big coincidence.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Wizard
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Wizard
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August 10th, 2019 at 5:07:17 PM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Said the guy who thought luscious sweets obscure Pine Street reference was all just a big coincidence.



I said might have been. That one was filed under "reasonable doubt."
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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August 10th, 2019 at 5:18:45 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I said might have been. That one was filed under "reasonable doubt."

Key word is REASONABLE
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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August 10th, 2019 at 6:03:14 PM permalink
FYI. From the customer stand point this is one of the best new table game ideas I have seen in a very long time. It's actually pretty fun to play and everybody seems to love it. Everybody's rooting for everyone else at the table.
The poppies were actually lined up to play it. People are arguing over who was next. People were actually crowding in front of you just so they could get a look at the game. Again these people are ploppies not AP's. One guy hit a 200 to 1, 4 of a kind for 1k.

While I was waiting for a seat I noticed one guy texting with his wife or girlfriend and she was super pissed off he wouldn't leave the game. Her, "I HAD ENOUGH!"

If your recreational player that doesn't mind giving up a little EV, I definitely would play this game if you're looking for something fun to play.

Any information about who made it or the company?
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
skyscanner
skyscanner
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August 12th, 2019 at 4:20:49 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

As to the Stud Bonus side bet, I learned that a Twisted Stud is ranked as the LOWEST paying hand. For example, AA234 would pay as a high pair, not a Twisted Stud with 13 points. With that understanding, I redid my analysis and get a house edge of 2.49% on the side bet. My Twisted 21 page I believe to now have the correct rules and analysis.

I thank all who helped with this page, either doing math or helping determine the actual rules.



I played this game tonight. I had A4 then hit A then 3. At this time my BJ hand was worh 19 and I should have stopped, but then the dealer mislead me that if the 5th card were a 7 or less, I would win 20:1 on the side bet. So I turned the 5th card and it was a 3, rendering my blackjack hand a 12, against the dealer's 19. The dealer then handed me 100$ in chips for my 5$ side bet, but then a player at the table argued that he was wrong to award me 20:1 when he should have only awarded me a 3:1 for the 2 pair. The supervisor got involved, he said that I should get 3:1 but, at my insistence that the dealer had msinformed me about the rules, my blackjack hand stands at 19 (he cancelled turning the 5th card).

Anyways, the 20:1 stud bet is only awarded if there is no other lower paid combination (JoB, 2 pair, 3 of a kind, straight, flush). Also, all 5 cards must be turned for the player to receive it. With a four card 12 against the dealer's 6 you should stand, but if you think the 5th card is a 4 or less, you must hit. It depends on how much you bet on your 21 hand versus the stud bet. There were players who just paid the 10$ minimum for the blackjack and wagered way more for the poker hand.
skyscanner
skyscanner
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August 12th, 2019 at 4:23:38 AM permalink
Also, I find it inconsistent that the aces forming the Super 16 are counted as 1, but then they are counted as being better then the pair of Jacks which are worth 10 each.
Wizard
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skyscanner
August 12th, 2019 at 4:36:50 AM permalink
Quote: skyscanner

I played this game tonight. I had A4 then hit A then 3. At this time my BJ hand was worh 19 and I should have stopped, but then the dealer mislead me that if the 5th card were a 7 or less, I would win 20:1 on the side bet. So I turned the 5th card and it was a 3, rendering my blackjack hand a 12, against the dealer's 19. The dealer then handed me 100$ in chips for my 5$ side bet, but then a player at the table argued that he was wrong to award me 20:1 when he should have only awarded me a 3:1 for the 2 pair. The supervisor got involved, he said that I should get 3:1 but, at my insistence that the dealer had msinformed me about the rules, my blackjack hand stands at 19 (he cancelled turning the 5th card).

Anyways, the 20:1 stud bet is only awarded if there is no other lower paid combination (JoB, 2 pair, 3 of a kind, straight, flush). Also, all 5 cards must be turned for the player to receive it. With a four card 12 against the dealer's 6 you should stand, but if you think the 5th card is a 4 or less, you must hit. It depends on how much you bet on your 21 hand versus the stud bet. There were players who just paid the 10$ minimum for the blackjack and wagered way more for the poker hand.



When I played on Thursday and others played on Friday, the player didn't have to hit into all five cards for the Stud Bonus hand to count, the player got use all of them for the poker hand all the time. Either this is a new rule, the dealers were dealing it incorrectly before, or they were dealing it incorrectly to you.

Whatever the case, I would have been angry in your shoes for two reasons:

1. Bad advice from the dealer caused you to lose the blackjack hand.
2. That other player should have kept his mouth shut. I can see correcting a perceived error to help another player, but not to hurt him.

In your shoes, I think I would have complained to Gaming to get the 20 to 1 payout.
Last edited by: Wizard on Aug 12, 2019
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Wizard
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skyscanner
August 12th, 2019 at 4:38:09 AM permalink
Quote: skyscanner

Also, I find it inconsistent that the aces forming the Super 16 are counted as 1, but then they are counted as being better then the pair of Jacks which are worth 10 each.



So do I. Not the best example of good game design, but it does seem to get played well, I give the game that.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
DJTeddyBear
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skyscanner
August 12th, 2019 at 6:44:01 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Here is the rule card, for what it's worth. It doesn't do a good job of clearing up the ambiguous rules.



Having finally had a chance to read everything, here's my take.

1 - To say the card is "Ambiguous" is being kind. I hold no punches. The rules card sucks. It not only give no indication what a Twisted Stud is, it seems to imply that in the BJ play, you don't pick which card(s) to hit, but must pick how many cards to hit. It seemingly implies that after hitting one card, you could not hit again.

2 - All five cards count towards the Twisted Stud hand, regardless of being used for the BJ hand. First, the Stud Bonus section states, "If your five card hand is ..." Also, consider the alternative. If only shown cards counted, you would never hit your BJ hand. If you've got 16 or less, you'd sacrifice that hand (or hope the dealer busts), just to take the 20-1 payout. If it's 17 or more, basic strategy says to stand.

3 - Aces must count as 1, otherwise, there would be only one very specific hand that qualified for the Twisted Stud payout: 22345=16. Even with aces counting as 1, there aren't a lot of hands that make the Twisted Stud hand.

4 - Players may like the game, but I can see the dealers hating it due to all the additional movements required deal into specific spots for each player, then to turn cards to hit, and then to turn over unhit cards. And I'm sure there will occasionally be confusion and floor intervention required when a player claims the wrong card was flipped over.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁 Note that the same could be said for Religion. I.E. Religion is nothing more than organized superstition. 🤗

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