Thread Rating:

charliepatrick
charliepatrick
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
  • Threads: 30
  • Posts: 1765
Thanks for this post from:
GialmereMrCasinoGames
November 6th, 2019 at 4:19:53 PM permalink
Neither as it is a paradox.

Initially ignoring the "there are five things wrong" phrase, there are four things wrong (1) are are (2) to to (3) mitsakes (4) lack of full stop.

Thus at this stage there aren't five things wrong, so the phrase "there are five things wrong" is also wrong.

Thus at this stage the phrase "there are five things wrong" becomes correct; and now the sentence only has four things wrong.

Reduce ad absurdum.


This is a version of the card which has on the front: "The sentence on the other side of this card is TRUE." and on the back "The sentence on the other side of this card is FALSE."
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
Joined: Jun 22, 2011
  • Threads: 87
  • Posts: 3754
November 6th, 2019 at 4:33:15 PM permalink
Quote: charliepatrick

Neither as it is a paradox.

Initially ignoring the "there are five things wrong" phrase, there are four things wrong (1) are are (2) to to (3) mitsakes (4) lack of full stop.

Thus at this stage there aren't five things wrong, so the phrase "there are five things wrong" is also wrong.

Thus at this stage the phrase "there are five things wrong" becomes correct; and now the sentence only has four things wrong.

Reduce ad absurdum.


This is a version of the card which has on the front: "The sentence on the other side of this card is TRUE." and on the back "The sentence on the other side of this card is FALSE."



(5) it's a run-on sentence - either that, or two sentences separated by a semicolon instead of a period.

gordonm888
gordonm888
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
  • Threads: 34
  • Posts: 2023
Thanks for this post from:
Gialmere
November 6th, 2019 at 4:54:55 PM permalink

Answer #1
The so-called sentence is actually two statements. The first is declarative: "There are are five things etc....." The second one is a prediction about the future: "Only geniuses will be able to to spot all the mitstakes."

It is impossible to declare a prediction about the future to be true or false. Also, the two statements need not be 'True, True' or 'False, False.'

Answer #2
Five things wrong with the sentence.

1. Sentence is a run-on.
2. Mitstakes (spelling)
3. are are
4. to to
5. There are only four things wrong with the sentence.

Given the fifth defect of the sentence, the truthfulness of the sentence is a logical loop. In order to be true, it must be false, in which case it is true -so it is false.
So many better men, a few of them friends, were dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things lived on, and so did I.
Gialmere
Gialmere
Joined: Nov 26, 2018
  • Threads: 32
  • Posts: 826
Thanks for this post from:
MrCasinoGames
November 7th, 2019 at 5:17:29 PM permalink
Quote: charliepatrick

Neither as it is a paradox.

Initially ignoring the "there are five things wrong" phrase, there are four things wrong (1) are are (2) to to (3) mitsakes (4) lack of full stop.

Thus at this stage there aren't five things wrong, so the phrase "there are five things wrong" is also wrong.

Thus at this stage the phrase "there are five things wrong" becomes correct; and now the sentence only has four things wrong.

Reduce ad absurdum.


This is a version of the card which has on the front: "The sentence on the other side of this card is TRUE." and on the back "The sentence on the other side of this card is FALSE."


Quote: gordonm888


Answer #1
The so-called sentence is actually two statements. The first is declarative: "There are are five things etc....." The second one is a prediction about the future: "Only geniuses will be able to to spot all the mitstakes."

It is impossible to declare a prediction about the future to be true or false. Also, the two statements need not be 'True, True' or 'False, False.'

Answer #2
Five things wrong with the sentence.

1. Sentence is a run-on.
2. Mitstakes (spelling)
3. are are
4. to to
5. There are only four things wrong with the sentence.

Given the fifth defect of the sentence, the truthfulness of the sentence is a logical loop. In order to be true, it must be false, in which case it is true -so it is false.


Two Winner Winners!! Two Chicken Dinners!!

The classic answer is the sentence falls into paradox, but give ThatDonGuy (and gordonm888 - answer #1) credit for thinking outside the box. Speaking of boxes...


------------------------------



Chip Chase
Well, viva Las Vegas. You've made it to Cutting Edge and are attending a meet-and-greet for designers. To your surprise, your name is called out as a possible door prize winner. You are taken to a table that has five boxes (numbered 1-5) placed in a line and told that one of the boxes contains a $5000 casino chip.



Also on the table is a bag containing ten keno balls (numbered 1-10). You need to draw a ball from the bag to indicate how many guesses you get at which box contains the five grand cheque. The catch is, after each incorrect guess, you must turn your back and the chip is moved to an adjacent box before you can guess again.

Fortunately, being a game designer, you've seen this sort of mechanic before and realize that the game is beatable. You just need to get lucky with the draw.

What is the lowest numbered keno ball you can draw that guarantees you'll find the $5000 chip?

Have you tried 22 tonight? I said 22.
charliepatrick
charliepatrick
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
  • Threads: 30
  • Posts: 1765
November 8th, 2019 at 1:38:50 AM permalink
I'm not sure this is minimum but it's an idea.

On turns 1 and 2 go to 4. This picks up the chip if it started in 5 (5 4) or (4). Otherwise the chip has now moved to 1,2 or 3.

On turns 3 and 4 go to 2. This picks up the chip if (after 2 moves) it was in 1 (x x1 2) or 2 (x x2).
If the chip is still not found then it started in 3 after turn 2, moved to 4, and so is sitting in 5 or 3 (x x3 45) (x x3 43).

On turn 5 go to 4, this picks up the chip if it was in 5 (as it has now to move back to 4 (x x3 45 4) ) and also picks up 3 and went to 4 (x x3 43 4)
If the chip is still not found then it is in 2 (x x3 43 2), it is therefore going to either 3 or 1.

On turn 6 go to 3, this picks up the chip if it went to 3 (x x3 43 23). Otherwise it is sitting in 1 (x x3 43 21).

On turn 7 go to 2, this picks up the chip as it has to return to 2 having been in 1 (x x3 43 21 2).
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
  • Threads: 97
  • Posts: 13848
November 8th, 2019 at 9:20:36 AM permalink

Turn 1. Pick 4. If chip, you win. If not, go again.
Chip in 1. Must move to 2.
Chip in 2. Moves to either 1 or 3.
Chip in 3. Moves to either 2 or 4.
Chip in 5. Must move to 4.

Turn 2. Pick 4. If chip, win. If not, go again.
Chip could not have been in 5 or 4 on turn 1 or you would have won.
Chip 1. Moves to 2.
Chip 2. Moves to 1 or 3.
Chip 3. Moves to 2 or 4.

Turn 3. Pick 4. If chip, win. If not, go again.
Chip 1. Moves to 2.
Chip 2. Moves to 1 or 3.
Chip 3 (previous)must have moved to 2, or you would have won this turn. So no chip can move higher than 3 now.

Turn 4. Pick 3. If chip, win. If not, go again.
Chip1. Moves to 2.
Chip 2. Moves to 1 or 3.

Turn 5. Pick 3. If chip, win. If not, go again.
Chip 1. Must move to 2.
Chip 2 (previous) must not have moved to 3 or you would have won this turn, so chip was in 1 and must move to 2.

Turn 6. Pick 2. Win.

So you must have at least 6 chances to guarantee a win. 5 lotto balls 6 or higher, 5 lotto balls 1-5, so you have 5/10 chance of guaranteeing a win, but you have 10/10 chances of getting an opportunity to win.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
charliepatrick
charliepatrick
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
  • Threads: 30
  • Posts: 1765
November 8th, 2019 at 11:38:13 AM permalink
I'm not sure the method of working your way down and hoping to trap the chip works. Essentially the chip can swap positions with your guesses. I'm not sure your statement "no chip can move higher than 3 now" works.

Let's presume each hour you are let into the room to make a guess. You make your guess on the hour. If you are correct you win. If you are wrong then you leave the room, the chip is moved at half past before your next guess.

Let's assume your "Turn 1" was as 12 noon, and "Turn 2" at 1pm. I agree that at 1:15pm the chip is in 1, 2 or 3. By 1:45 it can be in 1, 2, 3 or 4.

For instance suppose (at 2pm) you are looking in box #4 and on the next turn planning to go to #3; then the chip might currently (2pm) be at #3. Your guess at #4 is wrong, so the chip will be moved (at 2:30pm) to #4 before your next look (at 3pm) into box #3. Thus it has got away from your net.

Essentially if you can get to a point where you can determine the only box the chip is in is odd (1,3,5) then you know it can only be in 2 or 4 next time. By guessing 2 you now know it's in 4, so it has to move to 3 or 5 next time. By guessing 3 you now know it's in 5, so it has to move to 4. Thus you guess 4 and win.

By starting out picking 4 for the first two rounds, you know (before moving for round 3) the Chip is in box 1, 2 or 3.
By turn 3 the chip might have moved to 4, so can be in 1, 2, 3 or 4. So you pick 3. This leaves the chip in 1, 2 or 4.

By turn 4 the chip cannot be in box 4, but could be in 1, 2, 3 or 5. By guessing box 2, you now know the chip is in 1, 3 or 5. hey presto.
B O X
B O X
B O X
B O X
B O X
Comments
Time
1
2
3
4
5
Boxes one to five
12:00
PICK
12:15
1
2
3
5
Possiblities remaining after picking
12:30
Chip is moved to adjacent box
12:45
1
2
3
4
Possible positions after one space movement
13:00
PICK
13:15
1
2
3
Possiblities remaining after picking
13:30
Chip is moved to adjacent box
13:45
1
2
3
4
Possible positions after one space movement
14:00
PICK
14:15
1
2
4
Possiblities remaining after picking
14:30
Chip is moved to adjacent box
14:45
1
2
3
5
Possible positions after one space movement
15:00
PICK
15:15
1
3
5
Possiblities remaining after picking
15:30
Chip is moved to adjacent box
15:45
2
4
Possible positions after one space movement
16:00
PICK
16:15
4
Possiblities remaining after picking
16:30
Chip is moved to adjacent box
16:45
3
5
Possible positions after one space movement
17:00
PICK
17:15
5
Possiblities remaining after picking
17:30
Chip is moved to adjacent box
17:45
4
Possible positions after one space movement
18:00
PICK
18:15
Possiblities remaining

beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
  • Threads: 97
  • Posts: 13848
November 8th, 2019 at 3:08:37 PM permalink
It might be a question of my phrasing, Charlie, but I think my method works, and the chip can't slide past. You can do a mirror of it by starting at 2, but assuming

1. the chip MUST move each time, and

2.MUST be to an adjacent square,

you can trap it by choosing 4,4,4,3,3,2 (if you need that many).

The reason is, as I said, by looking at the chip's past history when you don't find it at the 3rd 4 (and the 2nd 3), it isn't in a position where it can reach beyond you.

I could be wrong, no question. But I think that's the trick.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
charliepatrick
charliepatrick
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
  • Threads: 30
  • Posts: 1765
November 8th, 2019 at 3:20:56 PM permalink
This is my understanding, so I might be wrong.

If the chip starts at position 1 and initially just trundles up one each time:-
Round 1, Chip starts at 1. Guess 4. Chip moves to 2.
Round 2. Chip starts at 2. Guess 4. Chip moves to 3.
Round 3. Chip starts at 3. Guess 4. Chip moves to 4, (This is where the chip escapes.)
Round 4. Chip starts at 4. Guess 3. Chip moves to 5.
now chip can flip between 4 and 5.
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
  • Threads: 97
  • Posts: 13848
November 8th, 2019 at 3:27:01 PM permalink
Quote: charliepatrick

This is my understanding, so I might be wrong.

If the chip starts at position 1 and initially just trundles up one each time:-
Round 1, Chip starts at 1. Guess 4. Chip moves to 2.
Round 2. Chip starts at 2. Guess 4. Chip moves to 3.
Round 3. Chip starts at 3. Guess 4. Chip moves to 4, (This is where the chip escapes.)
Round 4. Chip starts at 4. Guess 3. Chip moves to 5.
now chip can flip between 4 and 5.



That's where i started. And perhaps should have stayed. I had a glimmer in there, though, that while this seems right, there's something else that has to happen, and now I can't recapture it.

Maybe you have to do one more 4, and the chip is forced backwards or you find it.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.

  • Jump to: