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Wizard
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Wizard
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Thanks for this post from:
MrCasinoGames
May 27th, 2019 at 7:22:24 AM permalink
I saw a set of five side bets in baccarat at Harrah's in Reno earlier this month. Two of them were the same as the Dragon 7 and Panda 8. For all the details, please see my new page on 5 Treasures.

As always, I welcome all questions, comments, and corrections.

The question for the poll is which of the 5 Treasures bets would you make?
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
SM777
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May 27th, 2019 at 7:40:00 AM permalink
What is the house edge of Coverall? It pays 6-1 if any of them hit in a given hand.
Wizard
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Wizard
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May 27th, 2019 at 9:41:50 AM permalink
Quote: SM777

What is the house edge of Coverall? It pays 6-1 if any of them hit in a given hand.



Thanks. I didn't know that. I'm getting a house edge of 2.97%.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
SM777
SM777
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May 27th, 2019 at 11:13:36 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thanks. I didn't know that. I'm getting a house edge of 2.97%.



Not bad. Very reasonable.

The others, not so much.
DogHand
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May 27th, 2019 at 1:38:58 PM permalink
Wiz,

I guess I don't understand the difference between these two sidebets:

Fortune 7 Wins if the Banker has winning 3-card total of 7. Pays 40 to 1.
Blazing 7s Wins if the Player or Banker have a three-card total of 7. Pays 200 to 1 if both do and 50 to 1 if one does.

It seems that any time the Fortune 7 wins, the Blazing 7s would also win, since the dealer would have a 3-card 7, and in that case the F7 pays 40, while the B7 pays 50 (or 200 if the Player also has a 3-card 7). However, the B7 would ALSO win if only the Player has a 3-card 7. Given this, I expected the B7 to have a much lower house edge than the F7, but your numbers say otherwise.

What am I missing?

Also, the wording on your F7 return table, "Player or Banker both have 3-card 7s", is unclear.

Dog Hand
Wizard
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Wizard
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MrCasinoGames
May 27th, 2019 at 1:43:08 PM permalink
Quote: DogHand

Wiz,

I guess I don't understand the difference between these two sidebets:

Fortune 7 Wins if the Banker has winning 3-card total of 7. Pays 40 to 1.
Blazing 7s Wins if the Player or Banker have a three-card total of 7. Pays 200 to 1 if both do and 50 to 1 if one does.

It seems that any time the Fortune 7 wins, the Blazing 7s would also win, since the dealer would have a 3-card 7, and in that case the F7 pays 40, while the B7 pays 50 (or 200 if the Player also has a 3-card 7). However, the B7 would ALSO win if only the Player has a 3-card 7. Given this, I expected the B7 to have a much lower house edge than the F7, but your numbers say otherwise.

What am I missing?

Also, the wording on your F7 return table, "Player or Banker both have 3-card 7s", is unclear.

Dog Hand



With the Fortune 7 the Banker has to win with the three-card 7. In Blazing 7s, it doesn't matter if the 7 wins, loses, or ties.

I'll try to clarify that table title.
Last edited by: Wizard on May 27, 2019
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
DogHand
DogHand
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May 28th, 2019 at 7:39:39 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

With the Fortune 7 the Banker has to win with the three-card 7. In Blazing 7s, it doesn't matter if the 7 wins, loses, or ties.

I'll try to clarify that table title.



Wiz,

If the Banker has a winning 3-card 7, then both the F7 bet and the B7 bet win, right? That's the only time the F7 wins, but the B7 also wins if the Banker has a losing 3-card 7, or if the Player has a 3-card 7... right? If that is so, explain how the F7 probability is LARGER than the B7 probability: your tables show the F7 prob as 0.022534, but the B7 prob as only 0.002312.

Dog Hand
Wizard
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Wizard
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May 28th, 2019 at 10:18:06 AM permalink
Quote: DogHand

If the Banker has a winning 3-card 7, then both the F7 bet and the B7 bet win, right?



Yes.

Quote:

That's the only time the F7 wins, but the B7 also wins if the Banker has a losing 3-card 7, or if the Player has a 3-card 7... right? If that is so, explain how the F7 probability is LARGER than the B7 probability: your tables show the F7 prob as 0.022534, but the B7 prob as only 0.002312.



The 0.002312 is the probability of the Player AND Banker having a 3-card 7. If only one side has it, with probability 0.008971, it pays less. The F7 probability is greater than the sum of 0.008971 and 0.002312.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
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May 28th, 2019 at 10:39:47 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Yes.



The 0.002312 is the probability of the Player AND Banker having a 3-card 7. If only one side has it, with probability 0.008971, it pays less. The F7 probability is greater than the sum of 0.008971 and 0.002312.



I think this is the point of confusion. The Blazing 7 pays more (50-1) for, what appears to be more possible winning states (Banker OR Player with 3 card total of 7; win not required) than the Fortune 7 that only pays 40-1 for a specific state (Banker 3 card win with total 7).
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
Wizard
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May 28th, 2019 at 11:00:45 AM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

I think this is the point of confusion. The Blazing 7 pays more (50-1) for, what appears to be more possible winning states (Banker OR Player with 3 card total of 7; win not required) than the Fortune 7 that only pays 40-1 for a specific state (Banker 3 card win with total 7).



I just put the ANDs and ORs in the return tables in all caps, to hopefully make it more clear.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.

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