5 Treasures Baccarat

I saw a set of five side bets in baccarat at Harrah's in Reno earlier this month. Two of them were the same as the Dragon 7 and Panda 8. For all the details, please see my new page on 5 Treasures.

As always, I welcome all questions, comments, and corrections.

The question for the poll is which of the 5 Treasures bets would you make?

What is the house edge of Coverall? It pays 6-1 if any of them hit in a given hand.

Quote: SM777

What is the house edge of Coverall? It pays 6-1 if any of them hit in a given hand.

Thanks. I didn't know that. I'm getting a house edge of 2.97%.

Quote: Wizard

Thanks. I didn't know that. I'm getting a house edge of 2.97%.

Not bad. Very reasonable.

The others, not so much.

Wiz,

I guess I don't understand the difference between these two sidebets:

Fortune 7 — Wins if the Banker has winning 3-card total of 7. Pays 40 to 1.
Blazing 7s — Wins if the Player or Banker have a three-card total of 7. Pays 200 to 1 if both do and 50 to 1 if one does.

It seems that any time the Fortune 7 wins, the Blazing 7s would also win, since the dealer would have a 3-card 7, and in that case the F7 pays 40, while the B7 pays 50 (or 200 if the Player also has a 3-card 7). However, the B7 would ALSO win if only the Player has a 3-card 7. Given this, I expected the B7 to have a much lower house edge than the F7, but your numbers say otherwise.

What am I missing?

Also, the wording on your F7 return table, "Player or Banker both have 3-card 7s", is unclear.

Dog Hand

Quote: DogHand

Wiz,

I guess I don't understand the difference between these two sidebets:

Fortune 7 — Wins if the Banker has winning 3-card total of 7. Pays 40 to 1.
Blazing 7s — Wins if the Player or Banker have a three-card total of 7. Pays 200 to 1 if both do and 50 to 1 if one does.

It seems that any time the Fortune 7 wins, the Blazing 7s would also win, since the dealer would have a 3-card 7, and in that case the F7 pays 40, while the B7 pays 50 (or 200 if the Player also has a 3-card 7). However, the B7 would ALSO win if only the Player has a 3-card 7. Given this, I expected the B7 to have a much lower house edge than the F7, but your numbers say otherwise.

What am I missing?

Also, the wording on your F7 return table, "Player or Banker both have 3-card 7s", is unclear.

Dog Hand

With the Fortune 7 the Banker has to win with the three-card 7. In Blazing 7s, it doesn't matter if the 7 wins, loses, or ties.

I'll try to clarify that table title.

Quote: Wizard

With the Fortune 7 the Banker has to win with the three-card 7. In Blazing 7s, it doesn't matter if the 7 wins, loses, or ties.

I'll try to clarify that table title.

Wiz,

If the Banker has a winning 3-card 7, then both the F7 bet and the B7 bet win, right? That's the only time the F7 wins, but the B7 also wins if the Banker has a losing 3-card 7, or if the Player has a 3-card 7... right? If that is so, explain how the F7 probability is LARGER than the B7 probability: your tables show the F7 prob as 0.022534, but the B7 prob as only 0.002312.

Dog Hand

Quote: DogHand

If the Banker has a winning 3-card 7, then both the F7 bet and the B7 bet win, right?

Yes.

Quote:

That's the only time the F7 wins, but the B7 also wins if the Banker has a losing 3-card 7, or if the Player has a 3-card 7... right? If that is so, explain how the F7 probability is LARGER than the B7 probability: your tables show the F7 prob as 0.022534, but the B7 prob as only 0.002312.

The 0.002312 is the probability of the Player AND Banker having a 3-card 7. If only one side has it, with probability 0.008971, it pays less. The F7 probability is greater than the sum of 0.008971 and 0.002312.

Quote: Wizard

Yes.



The 0.002312 is the probability of the Player AND Banker having a 3-card 7. If only one side has it, with probability 0.008971, it pays less. The F7 probability is greater than the sum of 0.008971 and 0.002312.

I think this is the point of confusion. The Blazing 7 pays more (50-1) for, what appears to be more possible winning states (Banker OR Player with 3 card total of 7; win not required) than the Fortune 7 that only pays 40-1 for a specific state (Banker 3 card win with total 7).

Quote: Ayecarumba

I think this is the point of confusion. The Blazing 7 pays more (50-1) for, what appears to be more possible winning states (Banker OR Player with 3 card total of 7; win not required) than the Fortune 7 that only pays 40-1 for a specific state (Banker 3 card win with total 7).

I just put the ANDs and ORs in the return tables in all caps, to hopefully make it more clear.