Super Three Card

Quote: charliepatrick

One of the big differences in this game is that if your third card is an identical one to one you already have then you make a Suited Pair. This beats a normal flush and affects many drawing decisions.
In the case you give
Jh 8d vs Ts I got the EV = -0.652032.
Js 8h vs Ts I got the EV = -0.650020.
Jh 8s vs Ts I got the EV = -0.647632.

(My latest simulation had an EV of -0.6448 for any unsuited J8 vs T, still got a HE=2.534% Fold=22.868% running 1 Bn hands.)

You are correct that I did not consider that a suited pair will beat a flush or a higher unsuited pair. That is because the Wizard's WOO page says:

2. Three-card poker hands are ranked as follows:
Royal flush (suited A-K-Q)
Suited three of a kind
Straight flush
Three of a kind (unsuited)
Straight
Flush
Pair
Ace high or less
***************************
Thus, even though I credited a suited pair as having a payout of 2 on the Odds Bet if it wins, I did not evaluate, for example, a suited 2/2 pair as beating an unsuited 7/7 pair or a three card flush hand. I assume you are correct if your numbers match up with the Wizard's. This means that the poker-hand rankings on the Wizard's WOO page is in error.

Also, nowhere on the game demo does it indicate that a suited pair will win vs a normal flush or higher unsuited pair but lose against a straight. Charlie, can you give me a reference for that rule/poker hand ranking?

Quote: gordonm888

...Also, nowhere on the game demo does it indicate that a suited pair will win vs a normal flush or higher unsuited pair but lose against a straight. Charlie, can you give me a reference for that rule/poker hand ranking?

The only clue is that on https://wizardofodds.com/games/super-three-card/ in all the paytables the "Suited Pair" or "player wins with Suited Pair" comes above the line about flushes and also pays out a bigger Odds bonus than a flush in PayTables 2 and 3. I don't know how it affects the game if it still pays the bonus but loses to a flush but guess you wouldn't get so many combinations in Wizard's analysis (I've done it a different way so don't get a breakdown by winning hand value).

Quote: gordonm888

I have a new "hand evaluator" under development for 3 Card Fury.

You mean Super Three Card, but I’m glad my game has stuck in your head :)

Quote: charliepatrick

The only clue is that on https://wizardofodds.com/games/super-three-card/ in all the paytables the "Suited Pair" or "player wins with Suited Pair" comes above the line about flushes and also pays out a bigger Odds bonus than a flush in PayTables 2 and 3. I don't know how it affects the game if it still pays the bonus but loses to a flush but guess you wouldn't get so many combinations in Wizard's analysis (I've done it a different way so don't get a breakdown by winning hand value).

Of course, okay. Thanks for pointing that out. That certainly improves the win % of hands with suited pairs.

If this game is indeed dealt from a shoe to a penetration determined by a cut card, the House Edge would be significantly greater than shown. The player has a lot of equity in the prospect of making high pairs and suited pairs and those hands will become less frequent with penetration -especially suited pairs!

Quote: mrsuit31

You mean Super Three Card, but I’m glad my game has stuck in your head :)

LOL, I am getting these new 3-card games confused. I do think 3 Card Fury is an unusually good game, good luck with it!

Quote: gordonm888

LOL, I am getting these new 3-card games confused. I do think 3 Card Fury is an unusually good game, good luck with it!

Thank you sir!

Quote: gordonm888

Do you remember if this game at the Rampart was dealt from a continuous shuffler? I think you would need a continuous shuffle after every deal. That's almost an inherent feature of poker variant games involving 6-8 decks. If you dealt from a six-deck shoe to a cut card at some penetration, that would be wild.

I still have never seen it open and it's not listed on Gaming's web site. Very odd.

Quote: Wizard

I still have never seen it open and it's not listed on Gaming's web site. Very odd.

It’s apparently an old game they acquired. It was seemingly formally owned by big bet gaming and was approved a few years ago in 2015.

NGCB SUPER THREE CARD RULES OF PLAY

If you search the approved games rules (not on the pdf, but on the alphabetical link choices) you will see the approval date and find the approval letter I linked to above.

This is part of the UNLV portfolio acquisition.

Quote: mrsuit31

It’s apparently an old game they acquired. It was seemingly formally owned by big bet gaming and was approved a few years ago in 2015.

Good detective work there, thank you.

Quote: gordonm888

Of course, okay. Thanks for pointing that out. That certainly improves the win % of hands with suited pairs.

If this game is indeed dealt from a shoe to a penetration determined by a cut card, the House Edge would be significantly greater than shown. The player has a lot of equity in the prospect of making high pairs and suited pairs and those hands will become less frequent with penetration -especially suited pairs!

Just wanted to chime in and say that this game has made it to Tunica. A friend and I played a 12+ hour session of it on the first night of the table being open. The floor was teaching the dealers how to deal it and essentially the players and dealers were learning it at the same time. Suited pairs beating a flush and generally identifying suited pairs tripped everyone up.

The version that the Gold Strike has is non-progressive and is using 6 decks dealt out of a regular shoe just like blackjack. Since I didn't see this forum thread until after I got back, we couldn't find a strategy for the game so we made up one anecdotally using a mixed strategy derived from Mississippi stud and Ultimate Texas Hold 'Em. We also tracked the count of remaining Aces and Kings in the shoe because all we were trying to do was make a high card hand that on average beat the dealers random hand. Actually getting a pair or better was just a plus.

Overall I like the game and I would like to think that if some type of high/low system was implemented, the game could be beatable.