Fleaswatter
Fleaswatter
Joined: Dec 1, 2010
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January 12th, 2019 at 8:39:20 AM permalink
If you buy the 4 for $40 the vig is $2.
If you lay the 4 for $40 the vig is $1.

Why is the vig for buying a number based upon the amount of the bet while the vig for laying a number is based upon the expected win amount?
7craps
7craps
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January 12th, 2019 at 10:49:09 AM permalink
Quote: Fleaswatter

Why is the vig for buying a number based upon the amount of the bet while the vig for laying a number is based upon the expected win amount?

the Buy and Lay bets, as my understanding, came about the same time.
Both being a fair bet
the vig back then (early 1900s) was always collected when the bet was made.
The Buy bet house edge is about 4.76% on all numbers

where the Lay bet house edge is less than the buy. (depends on the number)
IF they charged the Lay the same as the Buy (on the bet) and they could have done just that,
the house edge would be higher than the Buy. That could make for less action using the Lay bets

it is just what they did way back to start and has stuck around
trying to make the Lay a better bet than the Buy without gouging the player.
(I did not find a clear answer to this in any of my old books)

interesting to find other thoughts on this
winsome johnny (not Win some johnny)
FCBLComish
FCBLComish
Joined: Apr 11, 2010
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January 12th, 2019 at 4:55:35 PM permalink
Quote: Fleaswatter

If you buy the 4 for $40 the vig is $2.
If you lay the 4 for $40 the vig is $1.

Why is the vig for buying a number based upon the amount of the bet while the vig for laying a number is based upon the expected win amount?




A $20 buy bet on the 4 and a $40 lay bet against the 4 are actually the same bet.

You can choose either side of the bet and pay $1 (5% of the wager) as vig.
Beware, I work for the dark side.... We have cookies
Fleaswatter
Fleaswatter
Joined: Dec 1, 2010
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January 12th, 2019 at 5:53:35 PM permalink
Quote: 7craps

the Buy and Lay bets, as my understanding, came about the same time.
Both being a fair bet
the vig back then (early 1900s) was always collected when the bet was made.
The Buy bet house edge is about 4.76% on all numbers

where the Lay bet house edge is less than the buy. (depends on the number)
IF they charged the Lay the same as the Buy (on the bet) and they could have done just that,
the house edge would be higher than the Buy. That could make for less action using the Lay bets

it is just what they did way back to start and has stuck around
trying to make the Lay a better bet than the Buy without gouging the player.
(I did not find a clear answer to this in any of my old books)

interesting to find other thoughts on this



Thank you sounds logical.

Quote: FCBLComish

A $20 buy bet on the 4 and a $40 lay bet against the 4 are actually the same bet.

You can choose either side of the bet and pay $1 (5% of the wager) as vig.



I really do not understand you answer. 5% of the $40 lay bet wager is $2.

I agree that a casino will charge $1 on a $40 lay against the 4, but it is 5% of the expected win, not 5% of the wager
unJon
unJon 
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January 12th, 2019 at 6:12:58 PM permalink
Quote: Fleaswatter

Thank you sounds logical.



I really do not understand you answer. 5% of the $40 lay bet wager is $2.

I agree that a casino will charge $1 on a $40 lay against the 4, but it is 5% of the expected win, not 5% of the wager



I’ll try for him again. There’s one bet: will the four come before the seven. Taking the yes side (pays 2:1) is a “buy” and the no side is a “lay” (pays 1:2). It’s the same bet and the casino charges the same $ whichever side you take.

ETA: so if you and I are on the same table and you buy the four for $20 and I lay the 4 for $40, the house has a balanced book. Our bets cancel our for them. They are the “same” bet on different sides, and the casino charges the same price for both of them.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
KevinAA
KevinAA
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January 12th, 2019 at 6:24:45 PM permalink
A $20 buy on the 4 wins $40 (net). Now you have a total of $60 in chips to your name.

A $40 lay against the 4 wins $20 (net). Now you have a total of $60 in chips to your name. Same amount.

$1 cost for the same result, but you get to choose... 1/3 chance that $20 turns into $60, or 2/3 chance that $40 turns into $60.
billionaireben
billionaireben
Joined: Jun 29, 2011
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January 13th, 2019 at 9:51:28 AM permalink
I laid the 5 and 9 for $75 each, the vig was over charged based on the total win of $100 if a 7 hit; when a 9 was hit, they only gave me $2 of vig back when I took down the other bet. I stopped laying #'s with that casino because they refused to issue fair payment on a bet that I never wound up winning (I only made it on come outs for a little while, stopping when this happened.)

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