Poll

2 votes (20%)
3 votes (30%)
3 votes (30%)
No votes (0%)
1 vote (10%)
No votes (0%)
1 vote (10%)
No votes (0%)
No votes (0%)
1 vote (10%)

10 members have voted

Wizard
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Wizard
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June 8th, 2018 at 12:43:04 PM permalink
I just heard about a new dice game at the Crown casino in Melbourne. It is kind of like Yahtzee where five dice are rolled, holding the good ones and re-rolling the bad ones. However, there are fixed rules about what is held (only four of a kind, three of a kind, two pair, and pair). If you achieve any hand that involves all five dice, including a "no roll" (for example 1-2-3-5-6), rolling stops.

Here are the full rules from the Crown.

They call a five of a kind the "Nutz." The Nutz bet is the only one that has different pays, according to which roll it is achieved on. Here is my analysis of that:

Roll Pays Combinations Probability Return
1 100 362,797,056 0.000772 0.077160
2 or 3 25 14,752,627,200 0.031376 0.784405
Loss -1 455,069,560,320 0.967852 -0.967852
Total 470,184,984,576 1.000000 -0.106286


Here is an analysis of the other bets, which are simply win/lose. Combinations are based out of 6^15.

Bet Pays Combinations Probability Return
Pair 25 16,796,160,000 0.035722 -0.071216
Straight or No Roll 9 43,535,646,720 0.092593 -0.074074
Quads 5 67,884,480,000 0.144378 -0.133731
Trips 5 72,783,360,000 0.154797 -0.071216
Two Pair 3 105,479,884,800 0.224337 -0.102652
Full House 2 148,590,028,800 0.316025 -0.051926


This was a fun math exercise to analyze. Can anyone confirm or deny my numbers?

The question for the poll is would you play Nutz?
Last edited by: Wizard on Jun 8, 2018
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
smoothgrh
smoothgrh 
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June 8th, 2018 at 1:01:10 PM permalink
Interesting! I'll field test this on my kids before I vote.

(When you say "no roll," do you mean "no hand"?)
Wizard
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Wizard
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June 8th, 2018 at 1:40:57 PM permalink
Quote: smoothgrh

(When you say "no roll," do you mean "no hand"?)



Yes, thanks for the correction.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Wizard
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Wizard
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Thanks for this post from:
Jmarch79
June 8th, 2018 at 2:16:51 PM permalink
Just tossed up a new page for Nutz. Please have a look.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Jmarch79
Jmarch79
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June 8th, 2018 at 4:31:12 PM permalink
Totally off topic, but whenever I see a dice based game that is not craps, it brings me back to Street Dice. Street Dice was a terrible game that appeared at Downtown Grand not long after they opened. What a terrible game it was. A loose variant of craps, but you only had three rolls to make the point. It was a terrible gimmick and didn't last long for that reason.
Wizard
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Wizard
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Thanks for this post from:
MrCasinoGames
June 8th, 2018 at 4:33:35 PM permalink
Quote: Jmarch79

Totally off topic, but whenever I see a dice based game that is not craps, it brings me back to Street Dice. Street Dice was a terrible game that appeared at Downtown Grand not long after they opened. What a terrible game it was. A loose variant of craps, but you only had three rolls to make the point. It was a terrible gimmick and didn't last long for that reason.



I remember that one. I was the first to throw the dice on a real money bet in that game. If you think that game is bad, you should look at some of the field trial games out right now. I don't want to name names, but some I think are much worse than Street Dice.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Jmarch79
Jmarch79
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June 8th, 2018 at 4:37:34 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I remember that one. I was the first to throw the dice on a real money bet in that game. If you think that game is bad, you should look at some of the field trial games out right now. I don't want to name names, but some I think are much worse than Street Dice.



I believe you. I've seen some weird games lately. I think everyone is finally out of ideas. Golden Gate has had a roulette side bet for a while, which is different. Definitely thinking outside of the box, but no one was playing it. Roulette side bets in general seem like a bad idea...the house edge is high enough on the game, by adding side bets to that game, you're knocking players off the game quicker. Not exactly a way to get someone excited about the game.
Wizard
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Wizard
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Thanks for this post from:
MrCasinoGames
June 8th, 2018 at 4:51:56 PM permalink
Quote: Jmarch79

Roulette side bets in general seem like a bad idea...the house edge is high enough on the game, by adding side bets to that game, you're knocking players off the game quicker. Not exactly a way to get someone excited about the game.



I hope DJTB doesn't read that one.

Although I preach to players that side bets are sucker bets, from a business point of view, they are necessary. A side bet in blackjack can make more profit than the base game. I work with a lot of game inventors and if they present to me a game without a side bet I'll tell them that every table game director won't even consider it until they add some. That is where the money is -- for the casino. At some point a house edge can be too high where players lose too quickly, but most people in table game management are more worried about being too liberal.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Pg80
Pg80
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June 9th, 2018 at 12:21:36 AM permalink
Thanks for working your maths machine on this. I think I'm competent at eyeballing a bet to be reasonable odds. I had a lot trouble eyeballing this one. When I suggested it to you, I hadn't actually played it as I wasn't comfortable with not knowing and real numbers on it. I'd consider a full house bet if I was feeling lucky and had few bucks to get rid of.
This game is one of four games at the "new games lab" at Crown. The other three are s7reak, pokerbo and dice duel.
I've played the s7reak "no streak bet" and find the low house edge to be worth playing. Dice duel to me seems no different to betting black or red on a roulette wheel (similar house edge). Pokerbo isn't worth playing the two 1:1 bets, but I have managed some small success on the 13:1 two pairs bet.
Once again thank you for putting the time into this.
MrCasinoGames
MrCasinoGames
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June 9th, 2018 at 2:42:04 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard


Although I preach to players that side bets are sucker bets, from a business point of view, they are necessary. A side bet in blackjack can make more profit than the base game. I work with a lot of game inventors and if they present to me a game without a side bet I'll tell them that every table game director won't even consider it until they add some. That is where the money is -- for the casino. At some point a house edge can be too high where players lose too quickly, but most people in table game management are more worried about being too liberal.


++1

I believe the next big thing for Table Game is a Good Roulette Side-bet/Side-game.

I believe in Roulette (Side-Bets/Side-Games) so much that I have the Patent for Roulette Side-Bets/Side-Games ©2008. US7,686,306 https://buff.ly/2HR95d6 Self-Read: https://buff.ly/2KuoEp0

Roulette Side-Bets/Side-Games Patent US7,686,306:
A method and apparatus of playing a variation of Roulette, permit a player to place a bet on the outcome of a spin of the Roulette wheel in combination with the outcome of one or more other random events.

P.S. I hope Companies stop using Games and/or IP's without license (It takes a lot of money, time and hard work for a table game to be successful).

Today I have a lot of Roulette Side-Bets based on this Patent:
Flush Roulette®. Anchor® Bonus™. Roulette Times®. Range Roulette®. Master Match®. ​​Flush Bonus®. Flush Plus®. Straight Plus® Double Hit®. Double Strike®. ​Double Barrel®. Colour Win®. Hybrid Bonus®. Roulette Flush®. Suits Roulette®. Jackpot Neighbours®. My Neighbour®. Jackpot Streets®.Jackpot Finals® Roulette-18® Plus™. Roulette-9® Plus™, and Others.
Last edited by: MrCasinoGames on Jun 9, 2018
Stephen Au-Yeung (Legend of New Table Games®) NewTableGames.com

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