Poll

No votes (0%)
2 votes (40%)
1 vote (20%)
No votes (0%)
No votes (0%)
1 vote (20%)
1 vote (20%)
1 vote (20%)
No votes (0%)
1 vote (20%)

5 members have voted

ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
Joined: Jun 22, 2011
  • Threads: 105
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June 4th, 2018 at 4:02:57 PM permalink
Wizard, my numbers come out slightly differently than yours:
(DNQ = Did Not Qualify)
Player
DealerDNQ12345
DNQ48164986601691792807704945362344889570615364093892174512102871588944
1917928077041746279825618098082352183582097601798203074419714019296
2945362344881809808235218474571432189077495041846462648020270209904
3957061536401835820976018907749504190325151201875146311220543861104
4938921745121798203074418464626480187514631121823036799220134053344
51028715889441971401929620270209904205438611042013405334421991599152
6969350136641857754764819095286800193817755681914750896820789238656
71060731597122036517310420855192064213397746082073092169622633053600
81190052477842293434769623517258544237173036162321759732825260095360
91243261964962413290446424401147280247431439362425823006426385678160
101337149598082570109798426210877376266231970402605996160028360748528

Player
Dealer678910
DNQ96935013664106073159712119005247784124326196496133714959808
11857754764820365173104229343476962413290446425701097984
21909528680020855192064235172585442440114728026210877376
31938177556821339774608237173036162474314393626623197040
41914750896820730921696232175973282425823006426059961600
52078923865622633053600252600953602638567816028360748528
61944294672821351853136238349642882489378350426792168976
72135185313623033727536256641139362677786113628855216704
82383496428825664113936279555713042920348193631629786016
92489378350426777861136292034819363024507841632893944144
102679216897628855216704316297860163289394414435425906656

I get a house advantage of 1.8675%, which is close to what I get in simulations.
Wizard
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Wizard 
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
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June 4th, 2018 at 4:23:15 PM permalink
Thanks for your results. Clearly one of us is in error, and it could very well be me. To help us find our point of departure, I present the following table of possible outcomes for just the player, by your numbers and mine:

Dealer TDG MS
DNQ 0.313507 0.313507
1 0.060060 0.006356
2 0.061629 0.006873
3 0.062499 0.010460
4 0.061230 0.017654
5 0.066945 0.034546
6 0.063137 0.045905
7 0.068721 0.066897
8 0.076507 0.084342
9 0.079829 0.113352
10 0.085936 0.300108
Total 1.000000 1.000000


So we at least agree on the probability of qualifying. However, I'm clearing getting higher scores than you. The question is why. Let me think about it.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard 
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
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June 4th, 2018 at 4:43:51 PM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

I get a house advantage of 1.8675%, which is close to what I get in simulations.



You're absolutely right. I found an error in implementing the rule about subtracting 10 if the two-card hand goes over 10.

Thank you very much for the correction. I definitely owe you more than a beer for that one.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
Joined: Jun 22, 2011
  • Threads: 105
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June 4th, 2018 at 4:45:51 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

You're absolutely right. I found an error in implementing the rule about subtracting 10 if the two-card hand goes over 10.

Thank you very much for the correction. I definitely owe you more than a beer for that one.


This time, You're On - I arrive in Vegas on Monday 6/18 in the afternoon, leaving Friday morning.
gordonm888
Administrator
gordonm888
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
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June 4th, 2018 at 7:01:35 PM permalink
Very good. I have been wondering how it was possible that 30% of hands wound up as ten points. No matter what the three cards are in the bottom hand, I imagine that the two cards up front are pretty close to being random. Even given how often the 2-card hands are T-T, why should the two-card combinations add up to 10 or 20 as frequently as 30%? It was bothering me.

But, LOL, I was too lazy to make up a spreadsheet listing all the hands. Thanks to ThatDonGuy for doing the work that I was too slothful to do, and shining light on the issue.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
Wizard
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Wizard 
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June 4th, 2018 at 8:06:16 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

Very good. I have been wondering how it was possible that 30% of hands wound up as ten points.



That didn't feel quite right to me either but I've never once played the same so dismissed my doubts too easily. If I wrote a simulation, I'm afraid the exact same error would have caused the same mis-scoring of hands. My mistake was not properly scoring the hands. The rule about deducting 10 points of the score was over 10 was where I screwed up. Just goes to show that an error in one line of code out of hundreds will screw up the bottom line.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
PapaChubby
PapaChubby
Joined: Mar 29, 2010
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June 5th, 2018 at 5:24:01 AM permalink
I like the notion of the pot bet that allows you to compete against other players at the table. This seems like a twist which might be incorporated into other table games. Is the pot bet optional? It seems to me that the amount of the pot bet must be consistent between the players (can't have one player betting $25 and others betting $5). I think the picture shows $100 on the pot bet; I doubt that would be typical.

I hate the fact that there is no decision-making or skill involved in this game. And no hand development. I don't play baccarat because I view it to be a boring coin-flip style game with no skill. But at least there can be some excitement when the banker is dealt a 3rd card with the outcome of the hand in the balance. Nothing like that here.

I would like to see this game incorporate some sort of decision point. Maybe a bet/fold/raise decision after the player receives their first 4 cards. Or the player is dealt 4 cards, chooses one to discard, then receives two final cards. Something like that.

I will try to play this game next time I'm in Tampa, just to investigate. But I'm sure I will not be interested in playing this game on a regular basis.

Oh, and congratulations on your bike ride, Wiz!
Wizard
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Wizard 
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June 5th, 2018 at 5:48:34 AM permalink
Quote: PapaChubby

I like the notion of the pot bet that allows you to compete against other players at the table. This seems like a twist which might be incorporated into other table games. Is the pot bet optional? It seems to me that the amount of the pot bet must be consistent between the players (can't have one player betting $25 and others betting $5). I think the picture shows $100 on the pot bet; I doubt that would be typical.



There is also that element of a non-raked community bet in the game Flop Poker. I agree the bet amount should be equal among players, but don't know what it is. Terapined is supposed to check out the game this week to provide more information.

Quote:

I would like to see this game incorporate some sort of decision point. Maybe a bet/fold/raise decision after the player receives their first 4 cards. Or the player is dealt 4 cards, chooses one to discard, then receives two final cards. Something like that.



I agree. However, there is room on the shelf for mindless games of luck too. It is hard to criticize they old games because at least they have a following. If nobody had invented craps and suddenly a single table went on field trial, I bet everybody would say it was the worst new game ever.

Quote:

Oh, and congratulations on your bike ride, Wiz!



Thanks! Was hoping someone would say that.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
terapined
terapined
Joined: Dec 1, 2012
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June 5th, 2018 at 8:50:29 AM permalink
No Saigon 5 card at the Seminole Tampa Hard Rock
Spoke to a pit boss
Gone over a year
Never caught on
Nobody played it
The Asian food place is gone. A replacement coming so that space is walled off. Hopefully something bigger and better. Last place had real good food but more of a coffee shop atmosphere with just a long twisting counter for seating.
Boy this place is getting big. Saw more expansion. I think this is the 6th largest in the world. No competition for hundreds of miles.
"Everybody's bragging and drinking that wine, I can tell the Queen of Diamonds by the way she shines, Come to Daddy on an inside straight, I got no chance of losing this time" -Grateful Dead- "Loser"
PapaChubby
PapaChubby
Joined: Mar 29, 2010
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June 5th, 2018 at 9:01:11 AM permalink
News on the expansion: Tampa Hard Rock Casino Expansion

Is the Asian food place to which you refer the noodle bar in the corner of the Asian gaming room? It was open when I was there a couple of weeks ago, and packed as usual. Maybe they're expanding, as they only had room for about 15 customers at the bar (and I could never find a seat).

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