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Wizard
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Wizard
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June 2nd, 2018 at 4:28:34 PM permalink
Okay guys, I think this is the first published analysis of Saigon 5 Card. Hopefully it's right. What'd'ya think?

Event Pays Count Probability Return
Both don't qualify 0 481,649,866,016 0.098020 0.000000
Player 1 wins with 1 1 9,733,909,104 0.001981 0.001981
Player 1 wins with 2 1 10,706,973,088 0.002179 0.002179
Player 1 wins with 3 1 16,528,229,168 0.003364 0.003364
Player 1 wins with 4 1 28,676,031,164 0.005836 0.005836
Player 1 wins with 5 0.50 58,484,390,752 0.011902 0.005951
Player 1 wins with 6 1 84,533,343,740 0.017203 0.017203
Player 1 wins with 7 1 138,467,802,336 0.028180 0.028180
Player 1 wins with 8 1 203,945,516,176 0.041505 0.041505
Player 1 wins with 9 1 326,602,760,752 0.066467 0.066467
Player 1 wins with 10 1 1,086,260,155,840 0.221064 0.221064
Player 1 outscored -1 905,085,575,368 0.184194 -0.184194
Player 1 does not qualify -1 1,058,853,536,752 0.215487 -0.215487
Tie 0 504,245,013,984 0.102619 0.000000
Total 4,913,773,104,240 1.000000 -0.005951


I have to respect any game with a house edge of only 0.60%.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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June 2nd, 2018 at 7:15:02 PM permalink
On your WoO page, Rule 10 says,

Quote:

For purposes of the Bonus bet, aces are partially wild. They can be used to complete a straight, flush, straight flush, or royal flush. Otherwise they count as an ace. I know of two pay tables as shown below.



Is that correct, that aces do that? Or is it a typo and the first bolded aces should be joker?

Be fun to have 5 wild cards in a deck, if so. I would enjoy that.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
gordonm888
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gordonm888
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June 2nd, 2018 at 7:31:25 PM permalink
Wiz, do you have any way to retrieve stats on Player 1 hands that have a joker?

How often do hands with a joker qualify?

How often do hands with a Joker Win 1? Win 0.5? Win 0 (Tie + Both DNQ)? Lose -1?
**********************************
Mathematically this is an interesting game, but from a gameplay point of view it is lame.

- All bets are before any cards are dealt.
- Any 5 card combination will either Not Qualify or have one unique 2 card total.*

So, the entire game is just an elaborate way of assigning a "rank" to a 5 card hand that is completely different than the flush, straight and pairing of conventional poker. But otherwise it is 5 card stud with only one bet -and the one bet is before any cards are dealt.

*Edit: Actually this is not true. Some hands with a joker can be set in different ways such that the two card hand has different point totals. Consider: (Joker) -7-7-6-5. It can be set with 6-5 on top or with 7-7 on top. But certainly all 5 cards hands have one unique maximum 2 card total.
Last edited by: gordonm888 on Jun 2, 2018
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
Wizard
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Wizard
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June 2nd, 2018 at 9:21:49 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Is that correct, that aces do that? Or is it a typo and the first bolded aces should be joker?



Good catch; thanks. I did mean a joker.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Wizard
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Wizard
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June 2nd, 2018 at 9:28:35 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

Wiz, do you have any way to retrieve stats on Player 1 hands that have a joker?



I did not implicitly calculate joker hands separately. Some coding tweaks and I could tell you but I'm sure having a joker is powerful.

Quote:

So, the entire game is just an elaborate way of assigning a "rank" to a 5 card hand that is completely different than the flush, straight and pairing of conventional poker. But otherwise it is 5 card stud with only one bet -and the one bet is before any cards are dealt.

*Edit: Actually this is not true. Some hands with a joker can be set in different ways such that the two card hand has different point totals. Consider: (Joker) -7-7-6-5. It can be set with 6-5 on top or with 7-7 on top. But certainly all 5 cards hands have one unique maximum 2 card total.



I agree this would otherwise* get laughed out of most casinos, but I think this is an old Vietnamese game that has survived the test of time. The way I coded it was to store the score of every possible set of 5 ranks in an array. If there was a joker, it scored it as both 3, 6, and 9 points, and went with the way that maximized the hand value.

* Is this a split infinitive?
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Wizard
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Wizard
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June 3rd, 2018 at 11:58:52 AM permalink
An analysis has been posted to my page on Saigon 5 Card.

As always, I welcome all questions, comments, and especially corrections.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
gordonm888
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gordonm888
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June 3rd, 2018 at 5:15:59 PM permalink
Here's a puzzler I'm trying to work in my head:

Can you identify a Saigon 5 Card Poker hand which has a joker and no pairs (a joker and four different ranks) and does not qualify?
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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June 3rd, 2018 at 5:30:12 PM permalink
W,2,5,T, K
W, 5,8,T, K (both any 2 non-pair tens)
W, 3, 5, T K
W, 2,3, T, K
W, 3, 9, T K
W, 6, 9, T, K
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
gordonm888
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gordonm888
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June 3rd, 2018 at 5:38:49 PM permalink
Babs is correct, for the way that I stated the problem

I realized after I posted the problem, that I had made the mistake of thinking that any two cards with a value of 10 were a pair. It turns out that the problem is easy to solve when there are two cards with the same amount of points.

So let me ask it this way:

Can you identify a Saigon 5-card hand with a joker and 4 cards of different point values that Does Not Qualify? That is, 5 cards that Do Not Qualify consisting of a Joker and 4 different ranks if you count T-K as a single rank?
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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June 3rd, 2018 at 5:43:01 PM permalink

W, 2, 3, 6, T
W, A,2,3,4
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.

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