Venthus
Venthus
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March 25th, 2018 at 2:11:22 AM permalink
Over at the Golden Nugget Laughlin, they've got a new table game that, according to the dealer and floor manager, was its official placement: Gin to Win.

It's a 7-card basically-no-decision against-the-dealer ante/play/bonus game.

Play is as follows:
Bet the ante (and bonus).
Receive 7 cards.
Discard pairs/trips/quads and 3+card flushes in the most efficient manner to reduce your cards. (Cards cannot be used for pairs and flushes simultaneously.)
Bet the Play/fold.
Remaining cards face off against the dealer, lower high-card wins (45T loses vs 789); dealer qualifies with a 4-card T-high or better. A is low.
Payout is even money on Ante/Play; Pays 3x Play if player has no cards left in the hand.

The bonus, like most of them, was so bad that I didn't even give it a thought.
Last edited by: Venthus on Mar 25, 2018
SM777
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March 25th, 2018 at 7:23:48 AM permalink
I imagine when this gets off free trial and they have to start paying it'll be removed immediately.
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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March 25th, 2018 at 7:33:27 AM permalink
Fixed the title.

If you have less cards remaining than the dealer, but your highest card is higher than the dealer's, do you win or lose?

Ex: modify your example to T5 vs. 789. Who wins that?

Old argument. Hah! Another game where A is low. (just noting it)
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Venthus
Venthus
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March 25th, 2018 at 10:50:48 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

If you have less cards remaining than the dealer, but your highest card is higher than the dealer's, do you win or lose?

Ex: modify your example to T5 vs. 789. Who wins that?


Much like High Card Flush, number of cards is dominant. (If this game actually survives, I'm half expecting it to be merged with HCF, maybe as a sidebet like how BJ has a 3CP sidebet.)

I actually got a facepalmingly frustrating hand of a 0 vs 0... push! 8x on the bonus if I bet it.

Quote: SM777

I imagine when this gets off free trial and they have to start paying it'll be removed immediately.


I think it's too complicated for a lot of people and too slow. I'd estimate about 10% of the hands I got could have discards done in different ways that actually mattered, often removing an extra card. We kept having people come up thinking it was a 3CP table.
gordonm888
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gordonm888
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March 25th, 2018 at 3:22:04 PM permalink
Here's a math challenge for the forum:

What is the total probability of being able to discard all 7 cards from a 7-card hand, thereby earning the 3X bonus?
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
ThatDonGuy
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March 25th, 2018 at 4:27:04 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

Here's a math challenge for the forum:

What is the total probability of being able to discard all 7 cards from a 7-card hand, thereby earning the 3X bonus?


That shouldn't be too hard to figure out - the only bonus hands appear to be:
Quad & Trips
Trips & Two Pair
Quad & 3/Flush
Two Pair & 3/Flush
Trips & 4/Flush
3/Flush & 4/Flush (i.e. two different suits)
Pair & 5/Flush
7/Flush
I have a feeling I'm missing one (or more)...also, I know there are some hands counted twice (e.g. 4 Kings and 6,3,2 of hearts is both Quad & 3 and Trips & 4 (Kings of clubs, spades, diamonds, and K632 of hearts)
Venthus
Venthus
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March 25th, 2018 at 4:52:16 PM permalink
Just to clarify, this 3x bonus is part of the base game (sort of like how you can do 1-2-3x bets in HCF, depending on how many cards your flush is).

The sidebet is different and I don't remember the full paytable other than:
500x - Quads+Trips (this used to be 1000)
8x - 0 cards
2x? - 1 card
1x - 2 cards, highest card <7

Also, the original rules had the dealer qualify at a 4-card J or better, not 4-card T.

Edit: And looks like I slipped a word in the original post; GN-L's placement of this game is supposed to be it's FIRST placement.
Last edited by: Venthus on Mar 25, 2018
ThatDonGuy
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March 25th, 2018 at 6:33:56 PM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

That shouldn't be too hard to figure out - the only bonus hands appear to be:
Quad & Trips
Trips & Two Pair
Quad & 3/Flush
Two Pair & 3/Flush
Trips & 4/Flush
3/Flush & 4/Flush (i.e. two different suits)
Pair & 5/Flush
7/Flush



The number of hands is (52)C(7) = 133,784,560

The seven-card discards are:

Quad & Trips - 13 (ranks for the quad) x 12 (ranks for the trips) x 4 (sets of trips of each rank) = 624
Trips & Two Pair - 13 (ranks for the trips) x 4 (sets of trips for each rank) x 66 (sets of ranks of two pair) x 36 (sets of two pairs for each pair of ranks - six of the high pair, and six of the low pair) = 123,552
Each Quad & 3/Flush is also a Trips & 4/Flush (where the flush is not one of the suits of the trips)
Two Pair & 3/Flush, pairs match both suits, flush is one of the suits in the pairs: 66 (sets of ranks of two pair) x 6 (pairs with the high pair rank) x 1 (pairs with the low pair rank where both suits are in the high pair) x (11)C(3) (3-card flushes in the 11 remaining cards in the suit) x 2 (possible suits for the flush) = 130,680
Two Pair & 3/Flush, pairs match both suits, flush is not one of the suits in the pairs: 66 (sets of ranks of two pair) x 6 (pairs with the high pair rank) x 1 (pairs with the low pair rank where both suits are in the high pair) x (13)C(3) (3-card flushes in the 13 cards in the suit) x 2 (possible suits for the flush) = 226,512
Two Pair & 3/Flush, pairs match one suits, flush is in the suit in both pairs: 66 (sets of ranks of two pair) x 6 (pairs with the high pair rank) x 4 (pairs with the low pair rank where one suit is in the high pair) x (11)C(3) (3-card flushes in the 11 cards in the suit) = 261,360
Two Pair & 3/Flush, pairs match one suits, flush is in a suit in one pair: 66 (sets of ranks of two pair) x 6 (pairs with the high pair rank) x 4 (pairs with the low pair rank where one suit is in the high pair) x 2 (possible suits for the flush) x (12)C(3) (3-card flushes in the 11 cards in the suit) = 696,960
Trips & 4/Flush, where the flush is in the suit not in the trips - 13 (ranks for the trips) x 4 (sets of trips for each rank) x (13)C(4) (4-card flushes in the 13 cards in the suit not in the trips) = 37,180
Each Trips & 4/Flush where the flush is in a suit in the trips is also a Pair & 5/Flush
3/Flush & 4/Flush (i.e. two different suits) = (13)C(3) (3-card flushes in a suit) x 4 (suits for the 3-card flush) x (13)C(4) (4-card flushes in a suit) x 3 (suits for the 4-card flush) = 2,453,880
Pair & 5/Flush, flush suit is in the pair = 13 (ranks for the pair) x 6 (sets of pairs for each rank) x (12)C(5) (5-card flushes in the 12 cards remaining in the suit) x 2 (suits for the 5-card flush) = 123,552
Pair & 5/Flush, flush suit is not in the pair = 13 (ranks for the pair) x 6 (sets of pairs for each rank) x (13)C(5) (5-card flushes in the 13 cards in the suit) x 2
7/Flush - (13)C(7) (7-card flushes in the 13 cards in the suit) x 4 (suits for the flush) = 6864

This is a total of 6,805,840 discardable hands

The probability of having a discardable hand is 6,805,840 / 133,784,560 = about 1 / 19.6573.

Wizard
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March 25th, 2018 at 8:46:46 PM permalink
I saw this listed on the list of field trial games. It's tempting to make trip to Laughlin as an excuse to check it out. However, I probably won't. I might approach AGS for the math. Not worth the full to do it myself for a one-placement game.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Venthus
Venthus
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March 25th, 2018 at 9:10:15 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I saw this listed on the list of field trial games. It's tempting to make trip to Laughlin as an excuse to check it out. However, I probably won't. I might approach AGS for the math. Not worth the full to do it myself for a one-placement game.



Snore. I actually made a point of asking if it was an actual placement or field trial, and they specifically said it wasn't a trial or test run.

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