gamerfreak
gamerfreak
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RomesRigondeaux
August 2nd, 2017 at 8:11:12 PM permalink
By his own admission, Eliot has taken it on the chin from every side of the table. Casinos hate him because he reveals advantage plays to AP's. AP's hate him because he reveals advantage plays to Casino's. My girlfriend hates him because "Do you really need another god damn gambling book??!" - Yes.... yes I do.

Personally, as someone new to advantage play, I'm thankful to have such a concise resource at my disposal.

This book is a tome. There's 135 chapters spanning 475 pages. Eliot begins with brief explanations on what conditions need to be present for a game to be beat by counting, hole carding, edge sorting, top carding, and collusion. He then goes on to explain how to use those strategies to gain an edge in Blackjack, Baccarat, numerous proprietary table games, and nearly 100 of the most common side bets. There's also a lengthy section on beating table game promotions. Unfortunately, there's no information on machine play, but I don't think that was ever Eliot's intent.

The book also includes a few miscellaneous chapters with interesting bits of info, like an analysis of Don Johnson's plays, and a recount of a rather vicious back-rooming Eliot was unfortunate enough to experience.

It's worth noting that a large portion of the book is a printed version of AP heat. However I believe there's some new information included. Before purchasing, I would compare the blog posts to the table of contents posted on the book's website and see if it's worth the $50 price tag to you. Personally, I like reading things on ink and paper from time to time.

Another complaint I've heard about the book is that it's a ripped off re-write of James Grosejan's work. I'm not spending $1500 on a f****ng book, so I couldn't say one way or another. But from what I've heard of "the book", I'd wager that Elliot's explanations are less math intensive and more accessible to the layman. But in either case, my opinion is that math is factual information, not a creative pursuit. No one has a monopoly on the optimal strategy for hole carding 3 card poker any more than 2+2=4.

Personally, there's only a couple complaints I have with this book. First, while Eliot tells of how much hate-mail he gets for publishing this information (almost to the point of martyrdom), he also makes the the claim that that the book is written neither for AP's or Casino employees specifically, but rather for anyone who finds it interesting, and for a higher cause of making knowledge publicly available to all. However, the book is very obviously written for those responsible for protecting table games. Which is normally something I'd take much issue with, but as a reader it feels disingenuous to claim on one page "this book wasn't written for casinos, I swear!", and then start the next page with "Top 10 ways to identify an AP in your casino".

My other gripe is that there are quotes in the book taken directly from posts on this forum. I'm not sure if Eliot received permission from the OP's to re-publish their posts (I can't imagine they would grant permission given the content), but either way this just left a sour taste in my mouth.

I also wish that more was written on strategies and methods of hole/top carding and edge sorting...but I guess everything can't be handed out on a silver papery platter.

Overall, I feel that Advanced Advantage Play should be required reading for anyone with even a passing interest in gaining an edge on table games. It's certainly going to be one of the the most worn volumes in my collection.
billryan
billryan
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August 2nd, 2017 at 8:24:50 PM permalink
Could you give an example of posts lifted directly from here, I'm not visualizing this. Thanks.
I really enjoyed his Blackjack Zone book. He made math seem easy.
It's what you do and not what you say If you're not part of the future then get out of the way
gamerfreak
gamerfreak
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August 2nd, 2017 at 8:56:44 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

Could you give an example of posts lifted directly from here, I'm not visualizing this. Thanks.
I really enjoyed his Blackjack Zone book. He made math seem easy.


I just skimmed through some pages and couldn't find a direct quote like I claimed. But I did find this...




I still think I saw a verbatim quote in there, but it's possible that the above bit is what I'm remembering. I'll look a little harder tomorrow, like I mentioned this book is huge.
boymimbo
boymimbo
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August 2nd, 2017 at 8:57:43 PM permalink
If Eliot lifts posts from WoV I think he would need to get permission from us to do so.

I say this because when we joined WoV there are no conditions stating that we give up our copyright rights when we write something on this site. For example, if I wrote a statement regarding something factual or posted a picture that I took someone else could not take that picture or article and publish it and I believe this includes Mike or the site owners.

I looked at the forum rules and there are no rules or statements regarding copyright which to me means that our posts are copyrighted until 70 years after we die.

The whole site is Copyright Mike so at least Eliot would have to get permission from Mike and I am sure that Mike would want Eliot to get permission from each of us which he could get via PM. That would be the right and I believe legal thing to do.

Nonetheless when I saw the book for sale I thought that every casino is going to buy multiple copies of this book and I appreciate that casinos would be a major buyer of this book over the lay AP person who probably knows all of this already.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
gamerfreak
gamerfreak
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August 2nd, 2017 at 9:25:40 PM permalink
Ah, here we go...this is what I was referencing:



Here's the post:
http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/blackjack/2130-triple-down-promotion/18/#post19933

Quote: boymimbo

If Eliot lifts posts from WoV I think he would need to get permission from us to do so.


Copyright wise, I think the above example would be considered fair use, but IANAL.
Last edited by: gamerfreak on Aug 2, 2017
Zcore13
Zcore13
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August 2nd, 2017 at 10:03:04 PM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

If Eliot lifts posts from WoV I think he would need to get permission from us to do so.

I say this because when we joined WoV there are no conditions stating that we give up our copyright rights when we write something on this site. For example, if I wrote a statement regarding something factual or posted a picture that I took someone else could not take that picture or article and publish it and I believe this includes Mike or the site owners.

I looked at the forum rules and there are no rules or statements regarding copyright which to me means that our posts are copyrighted until 70 years after we die.

The whole site is Copyright Mike so at least Eliot would have to get permission from Mike and I am sure that Mike would want Eliot to get permission from each of us which he could get via PM. That would be the right and I believe legal thing to do.

Nonetheless when I saw the book for sale I thought that every casino is going to buy multiple copies of this book and I appreciate that casinos would be a major buyer of this book over the lay AP person who probably knows all of this already.



You don't own the post when you post here. It can be edited by a mod, it can be deleted. Back, the whole site was sold. Did you get any compensation for your "copywrited" material? The site could be deleted tomorrow. It's the owners content now, not yours.

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
ssho88
ssho88
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monet0412
August 13th, 2017 at 7:38:50 AM permalink
He mentioned my name : ssho88 in his book ? I just want to tell him that my team still beating the games although he published it in his book simply because MOST of the casinos in this world are NOT listening to him ! LOL

p/s : I have analysed 50 to 60 more side bets than what you can find in his book !
UCivan
UCivan
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August 13th, 2017 at 10:25:56 AM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

Nonetheless when I saw the book for sale I thought that every casino is going to buy multiple copies of this book and I appreciate that casinos would be a major buyer of this book over the lay AP person who probably knows all of this already.

Most casinos have real life data from own operations day-in and out, and from other casinos. I would be surprised to see them buying this book. Well, exceptions - the new floor persons might be interested in the analysis.
Wizard
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Wizard
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August 13th, 2017 at 11:53:55 AM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

The whole site is Copyright Mike so at least Eliot would have to get permission from Mike and I am sure that Mike would want Eliot to get permission from each of us which he could get via PM. That would be the right and I believe legal thing to do.



I'm pretty sure Eliot asked permission when he was writing the book and I said "yes." So, I'll take any heat from it. I do apologize to anyone quoted who feels abused by the situation. It was not my intent to cause any hard feelings but to help out Eliot with his book.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Zcore13
Zcore13
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August 13th, 2017 at 12:05:48 PM permalink
Quote: UCivan

Most casinos have real life data from own operations day-in and out, and from other casinos. I would be surprised to see them buying this book. Well, exceptions - the new floor persons might be interested in the analysis.



You may be right when it comes to Las Vegas Casinos, but you may not understand how many poorly managed and underqualified Tribal Casinos there are.

I can promise you, many have no clue about the game protection items in the book.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.

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