Roulette Question

At a certain casino I play at, there is one single zero roullette wheel and the rest are all 0/00 wheels. Often times the single zero wheel will be reserved by a high roller and roped off not allowing anyone else to bet at it. So the casino then turns one of their other 0/00 wheels into a single zero by not allowing any bets involving the 00 and if the ball lands in 00 it's a "no spin" and all bets are a push.

My questions are. .

Is this set of rules making it mathematically equivalent to playing at a normal single zero wheel? The pit manager claimed so, although I still feel it's strange. If I bet the number 20 I have a 1 in 38 chance it lands there despite the fact that if it lands in 00 I don't lose

And a more general question, if I'm playing at a 0/00 wheel (where it's normal 0/00 rules) , and during a session the ball never lands in the 00, does that mean that for that particular session I was not hurt house edge wise by playing on that wheel vs playing a single zero wheel ?

1- If it's advertised that a 00 result is a No Spin, then, yeah. The edge is the same as a single zero wheel.

2- If you're playing on a Double Zero table, and just happen to never see a 00 result, that's just chance. The edge doesn't change based on particular results. You just had a good day.

HE decreases slightly. The push lowers the expected loss vs single zero roulette. Take Pai Gow Poker, how does a game with more ways to lose than win, a 5% commission, AND ties lose somehow have an edge of only 2.7%? Because you push 40% of the time.

Single zero: 18/37-19/37=-1/37
Double zero (as described): 18/38-19/38=-1/38

So 1/37 expected loss per unit bet vs 1/38. That said, I think it just comes down to semantics. To me, "no spin" means a push, but it's perfectly fair to consider it literally "no spin" - in which case it is exactly the same as a single zero wheel.

Quote: michael99000

If I bet the number 20 I have a 1 in 38 chance it lands there despite the fact that if it lands in 00 I don't lose

I would think of it as a 1/37 chance where the result means the game is over + 1/38 chance of a second spin with a second chance to win.. with some minor additional probability from hitting 00 back to back etc..

The question about whether the HE is lower depends on if you are allowed to pull your bet after a 00 spin. If you are, then the EV is:

EV = 36/38*(-1) + 1/38*(35) + 1/38*(0) = -.02632 (slightly better than single 0 roulette)

If the bet is locked in, then it's the same as single 0 roulette:

EV = 36/38*(-1) + 1/38*(35) + 1/38*[36/38*(-1) + 1/38*35 + 1/38*[36/38*(-1) + 1/38*35 + 1/38*[ and so on for infinity]= -.027027 (same as single zero roulette)

Since I forget the math to evaluate that to infinity, I tested it assuming bet is resolved after the third spin and it gets me to -.027024

1)

You have a 1/38 chance of winning $35, 1/38 chance of winning $0, and 36/38 chance of losing $1.

1/38 * 35 + 1/38 * 0 - 36/38 *1
=
35/38 - 36/38
=
-1/38
=
2.6315% HE


BUT, that doesn't necessarily make the game better, if you were going to make a bet again due to the 00 push. For instance, if you were to go in and play for exactly 1 hour (or some other time period) or some X amount of spins, then this rule would help you, as the 00 is essentially a waste of time where you don't lose any money. On the other hand, if you were to use some sort of system (they don't work....but if you do use a system), then whatever wager you made when a 00 is hit, doesn't really matter -- it's a push and you're going to make the same wager again.

If 00 didn't come up, of course it's true you weren't hurt by it, but it was a threat all along. If there were 37 roads home you knew were safe, then a 38th was put in with murderers waiting for victims, you had no memory distinguishing any of the 37 roads, you wouldn't say it's almost 100% safe to walk home, because you'll probably never walk down road 38.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

If 00 didn't come up, of course it's true you weren't hurt by it, but it was a threat all along.

Why is the 00 slot viewed as a threat? It just one of the slots on the wheel no different than any other. Its just that people tend to bet in a certain fashion. 2,3 and 12 are no more a 'threat' than 7 and 11 are in craps.

'Threat' is a figure of speech - and assumed you didn't put money on it.

On a regular 00 game, 00 is a 'threat' just like 0 and just like any other number you haven't bet on. If it lands on ANY of those numbers, you lose. That's the 'threat'.

On the OP's special game, 00 is no longer a 'threat'. If the ball lands there, you don't lose. Then again, you can't win, so it's just a time waster. On the other hand, you're still earning comp points and getting your free drinks, so....

The HE changing must depend on what method you want to use to calculate it. In Craps, this comes up when figuring the HE of the DP/DC bets.

the main thing is not to become greedy, because it is this feeling that can poison luck

THE FIRST Roulette-game with 00 it's a "no spin" and all bets are a push.

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