goatcabin
goatcabin
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
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September 17th, 2010 at 4:12:44 PM permalink
OK, so my buddy Paul and I drove up to Reno last Monday and checked into
Harrah's around 3 PM. The rooms were in the East Tower, $60/night, two queen
beds, no smoking, no fridge or microwave, but comfortable and quiet.

We got a bite to eat in the Cafe Napa (coffee shop) and went in search of a
craps table. We found two not open and one very crowded. Minimum was $5, 3, 4,
5X odds, no triple on the Field bet.

We watched for a while, then I squeezed in and bought in for $200. Paul is a big guy and couldn't find a spot for a while. After I had played a while, somebody left and the other end and Paul bought in. It was up and down for me, but Paul was hitting some hardways and was up a bit. The dice were coming around to me when they replaced the table sign with a $10-minimum sign; it was 5:30. I was the first shooter after the increase, so I went ahead and rolled and made a couple of points before sevening out and leaving the table down about $30, $10 of it in tokes. Paul, OTOH, doubled his bankroll. Most of the dealers were wearing football jerseys in honor of the first Monday Night Football game of the regular season. They were all competent and friendly, and it was a full crew, including boxman.

Harrah's, of course, is HUGE, with casino areas on both sides of Center St, connected by a skyway. I kept getting lost. Paul likes to bet the races, so we went to the race/sports book section and he made a couple of bets. They had dog races as well as quarter-horse and thoroughbred racing. Almost all of the major-league baseball games were on, as well, of course, as the football game.

We ate dinner at the Cafe Napa, then headed over to Cal Neva, another huge place on both sides of the street. We almost gave up looking for a craps table, but finally found one, almost empty. There were just two dealers, one of them handling the stick. Play was $3 min, 345X. I bought in for $160. As I recall, I started out at 2X odds, an occasional horn-high 12, $1 12 or two-way $1 hardway bet, whereas Paul was betting $5 yo, $5 hard eight and sometimes covering the other hardways for $1 each. When you play aggressively and are having good luck, you win more than someone betting roughly parallel but at a lower level, and we had good luck. I won about $180 and Paul won over $400. Later on, they had a full crew; the dealers were very good and friendly, and as we came back there three times over the next two days, we got on a first-name basis with them.

We headed down the street to the Silver Legacy ($5, 345X) and played for a while down there. Here again, Paul won some yo's and hardways, while I lost about $50.

Finally, we hit the El Dorado, and it was a quick $100 loss for each of us, telling us to call it a day. We went back to Harrah's, watched TV and had a drink.

The next morning I took a nice 35-minute walk past the Reno Aces' ballpark, a very nice Pacific Coast League park, then along both sides of the Truckee river and back downtown. I noticed the Sands Regency a few blocks away.

Paul and I then had breakfast and went back over to Cal Neva, where we had a real good session; I bought in for $100 and left with $280, dropping around $15 in tokes. Paul also won at least as much as that.

We walked down to the Sands and had lunch at Mel's diner. They have a big sign near the craps table advertising 10X odds. When we got to the table, there was just one dealer working and no players. They had an insert with rubber pyramids that cut off the last third of the table, so the one dealer could handle everything. We ended up placing our own prop bets. IIRC, I started out at 3, 4, 5X odds, but also placed the 6 and 8. When I won one of those place bets, I put the red chip on my odds, so I financed additional odds with place-bet winnings. Paul was making a couple of come bets and putting around 5X odds on them, so while I was winning $7 on a six or eight, he might be making $35 on the same roll. I think he made a few max odds bets before we were done. After a while, some other players showed up and they took out the insert and got another dealer working. When we colored up, I had $330 ($200 buyin) and Paul had a lot more.

One of the things I wanted to do while up there was to win a $1 twelve or two and parlay it, but I never managed to win one of those. I won a $5 horn-high 12 and pressed it to $10, but it lost. One time, Paul and I both hit a $5 yo twice in a row; too bad we didn't parlay that!

We played two more sessions that day; I won around $55 at the Sands and lost $35 at the Cal Neva. At the Cal Neva, Paul was almost out of cheques when I left, but when I got back he must have had $300 in his rack. I think he hit a $15 hard eight in there somewhere.

We ate at the Joy Luck Noodle Bar - yum, yum!

Wednesday morning I didn't have breakfast, just some coffee and a croissant, while Paul went to the Cafe Napa. I called him later, and he was at Cal Neva playing, so I went over there and bought in for $100, lost it quickly.

We checked out of Harrah's, jumped in my car and drove to the Sands for a final session, taking another crack at those 10X odds. I bought in for $210, $10 in singles. My plan was to bet $1 12 or 2 once per shooter and parlay if I won. I made nothing else except $5 passline, starting at 3, 4, 5X odds; the plan was to increase the odds gradually as I got ahead. This was my "pure" session - no place bets, no hardways. The table was choppy; I get behind, then caught up, back and forth, back and forth. Paul was really suffering from the come bets with full odds, because while I would lose $20-$30 on a seven out, he was losing $150 or so. He finally gave up, but I kept playing, determined to go all the way. I got another 10 singles and went through those, never hitting a 2 or 12. I did make one horn-high 12 and won, which bought me some more time; I pressed it to $10, but it lost. I had one decent roll, making two nines and a five, but then the point-sevens finally wiped me out. My last $20 went $5 on the pass line and $15 for odds on the four - "seven-out, line away".

We found a Vietnamese restaurant and had a nice lunch, curried chicken with lemon grass and some spring rolls, then gassed up and headed home.

Paul said he covered the trip expenses plus over $400 profit, while I made most of my trip expenses, so it was almost like a free vacation.

If I could analyze all of our bets, I'm sure that Paul had substantially more expected loss than I, but he experienced considerable positive variance on the bets with the highest HAs and payoffs. He made a lot on hardways and yo's. Once or twice, he had a two-way $5 hard eight hit, so the dealers loved him!

Suppose you have two players making bets such that:

Player 1 ev: -$100 SD: $1500
Player 2 ev: -$75 SD: $ 800

They both experience good luck to the tune of one-third of a standard deviation, so their outcomes are:

Player 1 1/3 * 1500 = 500 - 100 = +$400
Player 2 1/3 * 800 = 267 - 75 = +$192

If both players experience positive variance amounting to .036 of a standard deviation, they will come out even, both losing $45-$50. If their luck is better than that, player 1 does better; if their luck is worse, player 1 loses more.

It sure was nice to play craps with real dice; it will be hard to go back out to Cache Creek. I saw a couple of players who set the dice, but both just tossed them down the table after carefully setting them. I saw no one trying to make a "controlled" throw and keep the dice on axis.

Since I was with my friend Paul, who plays nothing but rightside craps, I did not try by Don't Come method at all.

Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA
Cheers, Alan Shank "How's that for a squabble, Pugh?" Peter Boyle as Mister Moon in "Yellowbeard"
teddys
teddys
Joined: Nov 14, 2009
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September 18th, 2010 at 12:13:54 PM permalink
Thanks for the report. I posted a thread asking for advice on the financing odds with place bets winnings method a while back. I've since tried it in the casino, and I think it's a fun method.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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September 18th, 2010 at 12:46:16 PM permalink
I was thinking the Goatcabin eschewed such as horn bets?
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
goatcabin
goatcabin
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
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September 18th, 2010 at 3:04:49 PM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

I was thinking the Goatcabin eschewed such as horn bets?



I like to bet occasionally on high-variance, high-vig bets, but only $1 at a time. Of course, the horn bet is four $1 bets, or 5 if you put the extra dollar on one. I usually stick to just the 2 or 12, which have SD of five times the bet amount. The next time I win one of those, I am going to parlay it; that would be $930 from a $1 investment.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA
Cheers, Alan Shank "How's that for a squabble, Pugh?" Peter Boyle as Mister Moon in "Yellowbeard"
EvenBob
EvenBob
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September 18th, 2010 at 3:07:01 PM permalink
What were the crowds like in Reno? I heard the place is dying big time.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
goatcabin
goatcabin
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
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September 18th, 2010 at 3:15:36 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

What were the crowds like in Reno? I heard the place is dying big time.



Well, it was certainly not crowded, although, of course, we were there Monday-Wednesday. I imagine this weekend, when the Air Show is on, it will be quite different.

At Harrah's, where we stayed, they had only one craps table open, but it was generally full, even after 5:30 when they raised the minimum to $10. At the other places we played, even the one table was often empty. Paul and I walked up to empty tables several times, sometimes attracting a few other players, sometimes not.

The Golden Phoenix is closed; Fitzgerald's is closed "for renovation", yet they still have all their neon lit up at night. What a waste!

So, we were able to play whenever we wanted, for $3-$5 minimum with up to 10X odds.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA
Cheers, Alan Shank "How's that for a squabble, Pugh?" Peter Boyle as Mister Moon in "Yellowbeard"
EvenBob
EvenBob
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September 18th, 2010 at 3:22:51 PM permalink
One craps table open? Good grief, even on slow weekday nights at the local Indian joints, they always have at least 2 tables going. I don't see how Reno can survive if the economy doesn't improve.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
goatcabin
goatcabin
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
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September 18th, 2010 at 4:10:43 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

One craps table open? Good grief, even on slow weekday nights at the local Indian joints, they always have at least 2 tables going. I don't see how Reno can survive if the economy doesn't improve.



What's "local", i.e. where are you?
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA
Cheers, Alan Shank "How's that for a squabble, Pugh?" Peter Boyle as Mister Moon in "Yellowbeard"
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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September 18th, 2010 at 8:21:25 PM permalink
Quote: goatcabin

What's "local", i.e. where are you?
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA



Midwest, ILL IND MI area.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
TIMSPEED
TIMSPEED
Joined: Aug 11, 2010
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September 22nd, 2010 at 9:24:50 AM permalink
Quote: goatcabin

Well, it was certainly not crowded, although, of course, we were there Monday-Wednesday. I imagine this weekend, when the Air Show is on, it will be quite different.

At Harrah's, where we stayed, they had only one craps table open, but it was generally full, even after 5:30 when they raised the minimum to $10. At the other places we played, even the one table was often empty. Paul and I walked up to empty tables several times, sometimes attracting a few other players, sometimes not.

The Golden Phoenix is closed; Fitzgerald's is closed "for renovation", yet they still have all their neon lit up at night. What a waste!

So, we were able to play whenever we wanted, for $3-$5 minimum with up to 10X odds.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA


It's been WAY crowded the past couple weekends because of HAN, then Rib Cookoff, then Tailhook, then Air Races, and this weekend Street Vibrations...
You shoulda made your way out to Nugget ($2 game) or Western Village ($1 game).
Come back and visit us anytime.
Gambling calls to me...like this ~> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nap37mNSmQ

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