Pai Gow Tiles Strategy Question

Probably a noob question: I was trying to learn the 'Wizard Way', but I couldn't find the definition of "high 9", "high 8 gong" and "low 8 gong". So, what do they mean?

I guess "high 8 gong" and "low 8 gong" refer to Gong with the red 8 / mixed 8. But I simply don't know what a "high 9" is. The JB simple strategy also have "high 2", "low 2", "high 6" and "high 8", and again there's no definition of any of these terms.

Some education is much appreciated!

Quote: united

Probably a noob question: I was trying to learn the 'Wizard Way', but I couldn't find the definition of "high 9", "high 8 gong" and "low 8 gong". So, what do they mean?

I guess "high 8 gong" and "low 8 gong" refer to Gong with the red 8 / mixed 8. But I simply don't know what a "high 9" is. The JB simple strategy also have "high 2", "low 2", "high 6" and "high 8", and again there's no definition of any of these terms.

Some education is much appreciated!

Usually, when you see "high X" in a strategy chart, it refers to when you should deviate from the usual strategy of making the two hands as close together in value as possible; you would normally do that by placing the higher value tile with the "front" hand, all else being equal--so if you had 10,10,7,4, you place the higher ten (the 5-5 all white pattern, which I think is "Foo," or "Partition") with the 4.

When you are making a high 9, that means that you are simply trying to make the 9 as high as possible, even at the expense of the low hand. So instead of low 9/high 2, you would make high 9/low 2. The cutoff point for most strategies I've seen is that if you can't make the low (front) hand at least a high 3, you abandon the front hand and simply try to make the back hand as high as possible.

I'm oversimplifying this to some extent, but the basic concept is that making a "high something" means that you're trying for a push at the expense of sacrificing some unlikely possible wins.

a high nine is a nine with a teen or day in it.

high2 or high4 or high8 is any 2,4 or 8 with at least a chong in it.

Suspect "high 8 gong" refers to a gong with a teen while "low 8 gong" refers to a gong with a day. The actual 8 (big red or low) is irrelevant since the teen or day is always the higher tile in the hand.

Thanks for all replies! Now I can start to try to memorize the Wizard Way..

Quote: Joeshlabotnik

...you place the higher ten (the 5-5 all white pattern, which I think is "Foo," or "Partition") with the 4.

Simple clarification, but I believe the high ten (the 5-5) is "Mooy" and "Foo" is the eleven (6-5), fwiw.

Quote: Aussie

Suspect "high 8 gong" refers to a gong with a teen while "low 8 gong" refers to a gong with a day. The actual 8 (big red or low) is irrelevant since the teen or day is always the higher tile in the hand.

This makes sense but I'm wondering why not call it "low gong", "high gong" instead of "low 8 gong", "high 8 gong".

Quote: united

...definition of "high 9", "high 8 gong" and "low 8 gong"....

High 9
From the best, the hand types are (i) pairs (ii) Wongs, Gongs, Hi 9's (iii) other scores.
House Way first looks for pairs and acts accordingly (i.e. play the pair or split).
Secondly if they could make a High 9 (or higher) then they will either maximise the low hand (if >Cheung 3) or the high hand.
Thirdly they make two hands which are 0-9.

In this case a High 9 is a Teen or Day with any 7-tile.

Gongs
Technically there are differences whether you are using Teen or Day when forming High 9 or better, but these are fairly small and probably not worth remembering. However one important case is whether you use a High 8 (4-4) or Low 8 when making a Gong. This is because a High 8 is a high tile so it might be better to have in the other hand. This is why in some cases you make Lo 8 Gongs but make Best Low with High 8.

Hi 10 etc
Sometimes where the correct strategy is to put two tiles of the same value in different hands you may have a choice which way to play the tiles. This applies to Teen/Day, 10, 8, 7, 6, 4. For instance with 4-4 6-2 6-5 6-4 (Hi8 Lo8 11 Lo10) you're always going to make 11+8 and 10+8 but have a choice of making Hi9-8 or 9-Hi8.

Quote: charliepatrick

High 9
From the best, the hand types are (i) pairs (ii) Wongs, Gongs, Hi 9's (iii) other scores.
House Way first looks for pairs and acts accordingly (i.e. play the pair or split).
Secondly if they could make a High 9 (or higher) then they will either maximise the low hand (if >Cheung 3) or the high hand.
Thirdly they make two hands which are 0-9.

In this case a High 9 is a Teen or Day with any 7-tile.

Gongs
Technically there are differences whether you are using Teen or Day when forming High 9 or better, but these are fairly small and probably not worth remembering. However one important case is whether you use a High 8 (4-4) or Low 8 when making a Gong. This is because a High 8 is a high tile so it might be better to have in the other hand. This is why in some cases you make Lo 8 Gongs but make Best Low with High 8.

Hi 10 etc
Sometimes where the correct strategy is to put two tiles of the same value in different hands you may have a choice which way to play the tiles. This applies to Teen/Day, 10, 8, 7, 6, 4. For instance with 4-4 6-2 6-5 6-4 (Hi8 Lo8 11 Lo10) you're always going to make 11+8 and 10+8 but have a choice of making Hi9-8 or 9-Hi8.

Great explanation. It would be great if Wizard puts something like this up on the Pai Gow Tiles page. At least define "High 9" - otherwise I don't know how one can figure out it means "High 9 is a Teen or Day with any 7-tile".

Quote: united

Great explanation. It would be great if Wizard puts something like this up on the Pai Gow Tiles page. At least define "High 9" - otherwise I don't know how one can figure out it means "High 9 is a Teen or Day with any 7-tile".

Well, that's because the definition isn't agreed upon. Some people think that "High X" means ONLY that number or hand that uses a Teen or Day tile. Others define it as a 9 using a relatively high card, like red 8 + 11 or white 6 + Joker. I define a high 9 as when the basic strategy dictates that I use my high card to make as high a 9 as possible rather than to enhance the low hand. So, high 9 + low 2 rather than low 9 + high 2.

Quote: united

Great explanation.

Thanks. Usually "High-9" will only refer to Teen or Day with a 7.

Pai Gow Tiles is a complicated, but rewarding, game. The guides (in wizardofodds and wiki) can only give an introduction. If you were writing a book Chapter 1 would cover the tiles and their ranks. Chapter 2 would describe hand values of Pairs, Wongs and Gongs - once these are explained, other hands are technically 9 to 0 using baccarat principles. Later Chapters would cover "One-Way, "High 9", "Cheung 3" and House Ways; strengthening; pair splitting strategies; valuable exceptions mentioning L8 Gongs.

I have also thought of another time "High 8" is used and that is the advanced rule for Teen or Day pairs that you don't split with a 9 and H8.
Edited to change "Hi8" for the more common "H8".

It depends on the context.

High 8 Gong is a gong (using Teen or Day) with a red 8.
Low 8 Gong is a gong (using Teen or Day) with a white 8.
High Nine is Teen or Day with any 7

however

"high 9" might be contextual, for example, with {H6, L6, Gee, 11}, I would say play "7/high 9" (as opposed to "high 7/9") to indicate which half of the hand gets the higher-ranking tile since there are two ways to play 7/9; the "high" designation distinguishes between them. The same logic applies to any 4-tile combination and may lead to things such as "high 2", "high 5", etc.

Then there are the individual tiles: high 6, low 6, high 8, low 8, etc. These are usually abbreviated as H6, L6, H8, L8, etc.