6:5 BJ---will competition kill it?

Quote: Wizard

According to the September 2010 Current Blackjack Newsletter:

Total blackjack tables = 2099
Total 6-5 = 467
Total Super Fun 21 = 41
Total BJ Switch = 42
Total Spanish 21 = 6

There are a few other novelty blackjack games I didn't list, but are still included in the total games. The total of the four listed is 556, or 26.5% of the total.

It would be interesting to see what the drop and win percent is for each game.

Ignorance is bliss. The "JP math doesn't matter" guys will help keep the 6/5 games alive and well.

I've seen these 6-5 tables both in Europe and Australia. In the former they have lower limits and speaking to a pit boss are there for the Friday evening crowd and allow lower table limits. (His point being that they are in business and with smaller bets have to increase the house odds to cover costs.)

While in a large Australian casino I once walked up to a table - at the time the hands just being completed covered the strip (that usually says Blackjacks 6-5, Insurance Pays 2-1 or similar) and a nearby leaflet explained "Blackjack" and 3-2. So I put down my $10 and amazingly got a blackjack first hand. When the dealer only paid $12 I complained - whereupon they pointed out the cloth. My formal complaint (I guess similar to the Nevada Commission) fell on deaf ears. As it happens I went onto win a $400 jackpot on a fruit machine - but I won't be going back there to play Blackjack.

Sorry but I suspect 6-5 blackjack is here to stay and it seems a shame that casinos don't always display the full rules and the officials are powerless. They should have the UK idea - which sets a default rule set and for instance only allows casinos to hit soft 17 if it is clearly displayed.

My and the missus wont set foot into any casino that offers 6-5 blackjack.

Weve even stopped going to Vegas this year, after 40 visits over the last 15 years :(

If you do the math, casinos can not offer 3 to 2 SD BJ, except as a loss-leader !

It's funny... I posted a reply in September, and upon reading it, I finally voted: That Harrah's will go to 1:1 on BJ.

As a Diamond player at Harrah's, I appreciate their room offers and the availability of a Harrah's/Caesars casino in many markets. But they clearly have high overhead in Vegas. Through marketing, they can get their players to come out to Vegas with the hopes of getting them to play worse games than at the local casinos. Unfortunately, there are a few smart players who see through this, and limit their play while in Sin City (like myself).

So, sure go ahead and bilk the customers, who cares, right?

Quote: buzzpaff

If you do the math, casinos can not offer 3 to 2 SD BJ, except as a loss-leader !

I'd love to see those definitive mathematic proofs. In the meantime, the El Cortez still offered it at several of their tables as of April, and they seemed to be doing OK to me.

Hey, don't kill the messenger. I hate 6-5 too. But in all of Vegas, per Wiz"s chart, there are 2 casino's that offer 5-2 SD BJ.
I will stand by my original loss leader statement. Take a 6 player table, let 2 players bet $10 a hand and 4 players $5. And deal
70 hands per hour. And make them lousy enough players to lose 2 % at a game where basic strategy will get you an negative house edge of only 0.30 %. $40 X 70 hands = $2800 X 2% = $56. Now pay the dealers, the air conditioning, part of pit personnel, security , and tell me this is not a loss leader. Imagine the drop with knowledge players !!

The Hacienda game has house edge of 0.13% and $2 minimum bet. Does that sound like a money maker for the house ???
Any math experts have a detailed analysis or care to comment ???

70 hands/hour full-time at 0.13% on 6 $2 bets is only $812 for the month. Obviously that's not going to cover overhead, but that assumes you actually realize that HA and that low handle. If you get 2% players all of a sudden you're at $12,500 for the month which is pretty good for a $2 table, and if players start raising their bets that goes up further.

Remember that it's not about single table performance, it's about the performance of the whole floor. NV casinos have bingo for exactly one reason: to drive slot play between breaks. Look at the TTM win on bingo statewide: it's only $4M. That translates into about $9200 per bingo hall per month. The average blackjack table in NV makes $29,000 per month and is at least 100 times smaller (I'm guessing there -- anyone know how many blackjack tables you could fit into a bingo hall?)

I agree about the whole floor concept. But it is more about economics than greed that has led to the growth of 6-5 BJ at the $5 level.
Of course hitting soft 17 or restricting Double Down at that level sure as hell is greedy.
Hope by late August I can help turn that scene around with my game. The day before I head to Vegas i will definitely post it here.
For constructive criticism and the exposure of any mathematical flaws. I know the players here do not play 6-5 BJ except at gunpoint.
But somebody is at all those tables, that's for sure. Anybody got any numbers for drop per 6-5 $5 versus 3-2 $10 in same casino ?