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gordonm888
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gordonm888 
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May 7th, 2016 at 9:10:17 PM permalink
1. I am retired now from government service.

2. What bias in hand outcomes? You are making a wrong assumption.

3. I am done chatting with you, MathExtremist, and will not respond any further to your posts.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
Wizardofnothing
Wizardofnothing
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May 7th, 2016 at 9:15:42 PM permalink
I really hope this isn't a trolling thread
No longer hiring, donít ask because I wonít hire you either
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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May 7th, 2016 at 9:20:01 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

1. I am retired now from government service.

2. What bias in hand outcomes? You are making a wrong assumption.

3. I am done chatting with you, MathExtremist, and will not respond any further to your posts.

Did you just ask me a question (#2) and then say you're not responding further (#3)?

I'll answer anyway: you've accused the shufflers of biasing the results. This is an easy thing to test with statistics, collecting empirical data and comparing it against the expected distribution of hand outcomes. For example, you wrote:
Quote: original post

In Mississippi Stud, the first three cards out of the shuffler machine are the three face-down common cards. In Beast Mode, these 3 cards will be unpaired and have an unusually high frequency of cards with low ranks. Players will still occasionally be dealt a pair and win (or push) on a hand, but on unpaired hands they are at a great disadvantage because the board keeps turning up 2's and 3's, etc.

It's pretty easy to collect a sample of 3-card hands and compare them against the expected distribution of 3-card hands to examine, for example, whether the "frequency of cards with low ranks" is expected or anomalous. If you haven't done this, why not?
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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May 7th, 2016 at 9:51:45 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

That's not equivalent to actually having evidence that casinos are cheating. The same logic could be used to claim, with equal validity, that every shuffling machine in Nevada is gaffed too. Government is government, right?

Don't fall prey to sloppy reasoning just because it's fun to disparage the government. If you make a claim like "the Cherokee Nation is using gaffed shufflers," it's not valid to point to "all governments are corrupt" as evidence of that claim.


I was going to add on to that but got busy watching poker. Even though I stand by what I said, in no way am I accusing any casino of any wrong doing.
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
tringlomane
tringlomane
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May 7th, 2016 at 10:03:08 PM permalink
Naming this proposed anti-AP measure "Beast Mode" makes this sound like a complete load of crap, imo. Is your "source" under 30?

I highly would doubt Bally would do this for the reasons previously described. If the NGC got wind of this happening even if it wasn't in their state, I doubt they would not take action against Bally.
Wizardofnothing
Wizardofnothing
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May 7th, 2016 at 10:06:14 PM permalink
Well said, honestly I think it's bs along with the whole thread
No longer hiring, donít ask because I wonít hire you either
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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May 7th, 2016 at 10:22:21 PM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

Naming this proposed anti-AP measure "Beast Mode" makes this sound like a complete load of crap, imo. Is your "source" under 30?

I highly would doubt Bally would do this for the reasons previously described. If the NGC got wind of this happening even if it wasn't in their state, I doubt they would not take action against Bally.

If you need any additional evidence of that, don't forget that the NGC put Archie Karas in the Nevada black book for what he did in California. Good regulators don't consider jurisdictional borders when evaluating suitability, nor should they.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
boymimbo
boymimbo
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May 8th, 2016 at 7:16:59 AM permalink
It would be impossible to tell when the machine was in "beast mode" because the OP claims that "beast mode" only happens when there is a suspected AP at the table. I guess it's akin to VW telling its engines to run clean when it's plugged into an emissions tester. That never happens.

Does SHFL make clean machines? Absolutely. Is there source code possible to make it possible to have a "beast mode"? Absolutely. Would SHFL make any claim that it would give operators use of that code? Never. Does it happen anyway? Who knows.

Just because casinos make 0.2% - 7% off of every hand (depending on the game) doesn't mean it's enough. For a company like CZR who is hanging on a wire, rigging a slot machine or game to go from 5% to 50% has a direct impact on its bottom line.

A year ago, I would say "nah", impossible. But given what VW did and what online casinos are doing, and the technology behind SHFL machines now, I would say "anything is possible".

I'm in the camp of probably not, but certainly not impossible. If the FBI can find a hack to break into an I-Phone, someone else can find a hack to create a SHFL "beast mode".

Note - I am not attacking SHFL. They probably make a very clean game but it doesn't mean that it's not hackable.
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gordonm888
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gordonm888 
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May 8th, 2016 at 9:23:45 AM permalink
I am the original poster, but I am coming around to agree almost exactly with the views that boymimbo just expressed.

I think the story I was told was either mostly or entirely BS. I think its extremely unlikely -or even incredible -that SHFL would doctor their own automatic shufflers. I would edit my original post to add an upfront statement to that effect, but too much time has passed and I can no longer edit it.

But, I do think its healthy to maintain a skepticism about the honesty of the games that we play and to constantly ask questions. The creation of casinos originally solved a genuine problem. Before casinos there were a lot of dishonest games with loaded dice and card-sharking dealers. Even today, when a new deck of cards is opened a dealer will spread the cards face up - to show the players that all 52 cards are in the deck.

But with the creation of automated shufflers and electronic games (with no actual deck of cards in the game) it is harder and harder for the gambling public to trust that the games are fair and honest. Historians say: "Anything that can be done eventually will be done." If we can imagine how a casino can cheat, then it is likely that at some point in time someone will cheat that way.

I am not impressed with the situation in North Carolina. In setting up its gaming regulation infrastructure, I think that North Carolina has done the absolute minimum a state can do to meet the requirements of federal law. Given that the NC/EBCI Certification Commission actually did not meet for over ten years prior to 2011 and is currently composed of 3 people making $9-12K/yr and does not even have a website, I am personally not comfortable that there is effective regulation.

The lack of a strong regulatory system does not mean that casinos are cheating in NC. But, IMO, it does mean that the risk of casino cheating is higher in NC then in Nevada, Missouri, Michigan, New Jersey, etc. I think that reasonable people can disagree about high that risk is.

P.S. -The phrase "Beast Mode" was the colorful expression of the person who told me this story. I never had the impression that he meant that this was the terminology used by the casino or vendor staff who he alleged were involved in changing the shuffler settings.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
darkoz
darkoz
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May 8th, 2016 at 9:43:01 AM permalink
I would tend to agree the casinos don't need to resort to stuff like this but then I remember threads I started like this one so I agree the casinos can have what seem like ridiculous situations where they are in fact cheating the customers. http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/other-casinos/21787-slot-malfunctions-in-nys/
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

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