The NEW table games of the Table games conference at MB

I still don't know what happens with a tie in Hi Low Pai Gow, but here is my house edge on both bets bet ways.

Bet	Ties Push	Ties Lose
Front	2.44%	4.98%
Back	2.50%	2.60%

Lonestar Craps: http://olympiadice.com/lonestarcraps.aspx

What is the house edge on this?

14/36 chance of 1 to 1.
21/36 chance of losing.
1/36 chance of 5 to 1.

I assumed the house edge was close to that of the field. Replaces big 6/8.

EDIT: Just did the math, I came up with a house edge of 5.56%, exactly that of the field (2 to 1 on two and twelve). Is this correct?

(5/36) + (14/36) - (21/2) = -(1/18)

Quote: Triplell

Lonestar Craps: http://olympiadice.com/lonestarcraps.aspx

What is the house edge on this?

14/36 chance of 1 to 1.
21/36 chance of losing.
1/36 chance of 5 to 1.

I assumed the house edge was close to that of the field. Replaces big 6/8.

EDIT: Just did the math, I came up with a house edge of 5.56%, exactly that of the field (2 to 1 on two and twelve). Is this correct?

(5/36) + (14/36) - (21/2) = -(1/18)

I come up with that too. For some reason olympiadice does not state the HA for this bet, but they do for the "softways" and 2,3,11, and 12 place bets. They also talk about rolling doubles relative to 7's for the 2,3,11, and 12 place bets. Seems like some consistency and basic proof reading would help their presentation.

Quote: Paigowdan

Still, not good. Ideally, a push is supposed to be a 0% loss of the hand's bet. Over 10 hands a 1.66% loss becomes 16.66%, etc.

Indeed, the inventor of Hi-Low Pai Gow told me that one of the great advantages of the game for the casino is in its ability to "make extra money for the casino through extra commissions on the same hand." Apparently, he sold this idea very well, as the casino operators at the convention gave him a thumbs up on that one. Whether or not the PLAYERS are going to dig this idea is entirely another story.

In all fairness to him, the same inventor DID invent Fortune-Teller BJ that won last year, and that game has some real interesting options and features for the players.

Let me start by saying I mean no disrespect to the Inventor. If he can get people to play this game and make money doing it, all the power to him.

However, the above post is my point. 10 hands is 16.66%, 100 hands is 166.66%. So for every 100 pushes at 10$ avg. bet you will lose 16.66$ ON JUST THE PUSHES!

Let’s it break down… If we have 42 pushes per 100 hands on avg, at 10$ avg bet, that would be 6.97$ per 100 hands lost of YOUR MONEY. Now you win 29 hands out 100 hands in pai gow. That would be 4.76$ per 100 hands of your Winnings for a total of 11.73$ per 100 hands.

But wait! There’s more!

I lose 29 times per 100 hands on avg. That is a 290.00$ Loss per 100 hands. Now this is offset by the 285.24$ net win per 100 hands. Put with the additional house edge of .08% for copies or ties. That is another .80c per 100 hands. We are now at 12.53$ per 100 hands. That’s 125.3% of my avg. bet.

Take a Min and look at this... This game will cost you twice the money per 100 hands then regular commission Pai Gow which is 5.56$ per 100 hands. If the house hold on a commission game is 20% on avg. This games house hold has to be over 40% on avg. I have never seen a game that has that kind of hold have any staying power on a casino floor. Players will figure this out quick and just not play the game. I did?

Note: Am no math guy so if my numbers or logic are off please feel free to correct them. But I think am looking at this correctly.

Quote: seattledice

I come up with that too. For some reason olympiadice does not state the HA for this bet, but they do for the "softways" and 2,3,11, and 12 place bets. They also talk about rolling doubles relative to 7's for the 2,3,11, and 12 place bets. Seems like some consistency and basic proof reading would help their presentation.

I remember we did this math on this board after I saw the High/Low Dice in Hammond, IN. It is definitely the same as the stingy field bet. If they claim it's more profitable than Big 6/8, it's only because no one really plays Big 6/8 anymore, and at least a couple of people were trying the Hi/Lo Dice when I saw it. Or it could work in AC, where Big 6/8 is not permitted.

Hey all,

Although i wasnt at this conference some of these games sound interesting. If anyone would like to try out one more game which should be going live in the atlantic city by next year it is called Money$uit 31. You can try out the demo at www.moneysuit31.com.

There is a discusion in the table games section of this site regarding the rules, math etc..

I have heard feedback from thousands of player and most cant wait to give the game a shot live.

I would love to hear some more feedback from all of you as well!

Wizard -
On Hi-Low Pai Gow Copies lose on each individual hand side. The two-card side (low side) bet gives a huge house advantage.

For the copy action to behave differently between the low-side bet and the Both (main) bet would cause some serious dealer errors/inconsistencies in real play.

The individual sides only win or lose; Only the Both bet can truly push. Playing each side instead of the both bet:


Both win: Win + Win - Two bets pay commissions
Hi wins: Win + Lose - One bet pays commission
Low wins: Lose + Win - One bet pays commission
both lose: Lose + Lose - Complete loss

The Low bet is a BAD bet, because copies at one in 40-50-hands adds an extra 2.0% to 2.5% on top of the commission.
The high bet alone is also tough, because you must use the house way. If you have a flush with two pairs, you ain't playing the flush.

Quote: Paigowdan

Wizard -
Copies lose on each hand side. The two-card side (low side) gives a huge house advantage.

Thanks. Not to doubt you, but since I posed the question, I played the online game, and the rules said the tie rule was up to casino management. Agreed that if ties on the low went the house, the house edge would be much too high. I wrote to Cary, the owner, to ask about the rule, but have not heard back yet.

Mr. Suit,
I saw your site. Interesting. Looks like this game's up against 3CP. Well designed site - the use of demo play is a very good addition. But you should have the game's math available in a report form.

Why didn't you present the game at the table games conference? Will you be at G2E, the "General Industry" conference is November? Do you have a distributor, or do you self-distribute?

You know, we should have a "New Table Games" Area...

Quote: Paigowdan

Why didn't you present the game at the table games conference? Will you be at G2E, the "General Industry" conference is November? Do you have a distributor, or do you self-distribute?

You know, we should have a "New Table Games" Area...

Dan,

to keep costs low, the route i have chosen to take is to approach casinos directly. i have performed live demos for the casino managment at several resorts to this point.

I have been in contact with the G2E people and i plan to attend the convention this year yet i dont think i will be purchasing a both.

I do poses the GLI math report of the game yet chose against posting it on the site. Anyone who has an interest in reviewing the report, i dont hesitate to forward them the info.

As of now i am a self distributor.

I would love to talk to you about everything in a little more detail. If you would be willing, email me your contact info through the website (I get the Info emails) and i will get in touch with you at some point next week.

Mr. Suit,
Sounds good, I will send it.
As a self-distributor, you get 100% of your tables' income, instead of 20%, with 80% for the distributor. But there are advantages with a distributor (They already know the contacts).

Do attend G2E - and "press the flesh" with every Casino manager and table games director you can.

mrsuit31,
Opps. I can't seem to ship my contact info via the site (how's that done?)

Quote: Paigowdan

mrsuit31,
Opps. I can't seem to ship my contact info via the site (how's that done?)

you can just email info@moneysuit31.com or click the link on the contact us page

Mr. Suit -
Will do. (And Excuse my "D'oh!" ;) )

Did anyone else try out the demo? if so, do you have any feedback?