Triple Shot Rummy

I just saw Triple Shot Rummy at the Rampart casino today, out by my house. It wasn't open at the time and there were a few copies of the Dealer's Guide on the table. They were probably planning to do training on it later that day.

I first saw the game at the Global Gaming Expo last year. It plays like Three Card Poker, except they use Rummy scoring. There is also the Pair Plus bet, which pays by the same rules as in Three Card Poker and follows the 1-3-6-30-40 pay table.


Click image for larger version.

It should take only modifying the scoring function of my Three Card Poker program to analyze this one, so stay tuned.

The question for the forum is would you play Triple Shot Rummy? Multiple votes allowed.

They renamed this game. Trying to think what it was called on the SHFL website, but they had a demo version of it on there for at least 3 years, probably longer. Think it might have been "Three Card Rummy".

It's a decent game to play. As you say, very simple. I've played maybe 5 hours of it, so about 400 hands (computer deals fast), and it's a bit volatile, but holds your interest. The bonus paytable is (was?) pretty generous on the hit rate, not that generous on the pays. I think they must have decided to use the PP bet instead, or perhaps in addition to, that bonus paytable.

Seems like it was a zero score paid 3x, 1-4 was 2x, 5-9 was 1x, 10-11 was 2x again, 3OAK paid something, SF paid something. (Been a while; please don't take my vague recollection as fact.)

I would play it as I knew it before in a casino. I'd want to see what-all they changed before I played it now.

Caveat: AK was not a run for those cards to count zero on the iteration I played; it was an exception. A2 was. Probably makes a difference in the HE calc.

Edit: It's on Bovada as Vegas Three Card Rummy. I've played it there as well, and it's possible I'm misremembering that SHFL ever had it demo'd electronically. Essentially the same game.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Caveat: AK was not a run for those cards to count zero on the iteration I played; it was an exception. A2 was. Probably makes a difference in the HE calc.

This game plays the same - Ace is always low.

Quote: CrystalMath

This game plays the same - Ace is always low.

Thanks,CM. You work on this?

Edit: This game adds a zero for a 3 card SF and 3OAK, not just a pair. So that means AKQs is not a zero hand, it counts 1 for the rummy part, but is a SF for the PP bonus, yes?

I vaguely remember seeing a game like this (but can't find it in my notes from previous Showcases). The challenges it has are trying to replace established 3CP tables and that an Ace can only be low, which players used to poker might not appreciate. I also found it slightly more difficult that 3CP to work out one's hand value. Meanwhile, I'm guessing the bonus pay-table will be different depending on location/House Edge required.

Thanks, Barb, I knew this game sounded familiar. Here is my page on Vegas Three Card Rummy.



This would appear to be exactly the same thing except ShuffleMaster uses the Pairplus bet instead of the RTG "Bonus Bet." Personally, I think the Bonus Bet makes more sense, as it uses the same scoring as the base game.

I can confirm the Play bet pays as follows:

0 points: 4 to 1
1 to 5 points: 2 to 1
6 to 19 points: 1 to 1

Quote: beachbumbabs

Thanks,CM. You work on this?

Edit: This game adds a zero for a 3 card SF and 3OAK, not just a pair. So that means AKQs is not a zero hand, it counts 1 for the rummy part, but is a SF for the PP bonus, yes?

I didn't work on this game, but I am familiar with it.

You are correct about the AKQ.

The game will open Thursday afternoon, it is on field trial at Rampart.

Quote: Hittem

The game will open Thursday afternoon, it is on field trial at Rampart.

Thanks. Maybe I'll try to be the first to play it for real money.

BTW, who voted for "I am curious, yellow."?

I just wrote up a page for Triple Shot Rummy. It is mostly copy and paste from Vegas Three Card Rummy. Nevertheless, I welcome all comments, questions, and especially corrections.

I think one of the main differences is that in 3CP the bonus gets paid for good hands regardless of the result (e.g. even if you lose or the dealer does not qualify) whereas, if I understand it correctly, in this game the dealer has to qualify and you need to win for the bonus to be paid.

fwiw - paying a bonus for good hands, unlike 5-card poker, is a feature I thought 3CP got right.

Quote: charliepatrick

fwiw - paying a bonus for good hands, unlike 5-card poker, is a feature I thought 3CP got right.

So do I. Unfortunately, about 90% of dealers incorrectly don't pay the Ante bonus when the player loses.

I think that every Three Card Poker variant game coming out needs to answer the question "Why would players play this game over the original?" I don't think Triple Shot Rummy provides a good enough answer to that question as it appears to be the same game as 3CP with a different scoring system...meh.

I wouldn't call this a TCP variant like Extreme TCP, Ultimate TCP, TCP Mulligan, etc. This is just a totally different game, with a three card poker side bet in common.

Did I misunderstand the game? I thought you made an ante bet, received three cards and made a 1X play wager if you want your three card hand to be compared against the dealers hand.

Which would be different from the original 3 card poker where you make an ante wager, receive three cards and then make a 1X play wager if you want your hand to be compared to the dealer.

Triple Shot Rummy has a qualifying dealer hand, 3 card poker has a qualifying dealer hand.

I am trying to find this "totally different" game you are seeing when comparing Triple Shot to 3 Card Poker.

Apparently you did misunderstand the game. One game you are playing poker. One game you aren't. Pretty simple actually.

Just because the betting structure is the same, doesn't mean it is a variant. DJ Wild and Flushes Gone Wild have the same Ante, Blind, 2x betting structure. But one isn't a variant of the other. It is two different games in which you're trying to beat the dealer by doing something different.

Quote: Hittem

...misunderstand the game...

From a game designer's view the mechanics are very similar (except when the bonus is paid).

In mathematical terms
(i) Make Ante
(ii) Hand Value = f (card1,card2,card3).
(iii) If Player Value f(p1,p2,p3)>value Raise else Fold (or player can play blind with small loss of House Edge)
(iv) If Dealer Value < Qualify make Lower Payment (typically one of Ante or Raise)
(v) If DV>=Q : If PV>DV Pay out on both bets; DV>PV Player loses both bets.
(vi) If (PV>Good hand)&(Other factors if any) make bonus payments.

One could devise games (a) just using the total of your red cards (b) like baccarat trying to get to 9 (c) Blackjack totals ... etc. and the game would essentially be the same. The advantage of the poker ranking method is most people already understand it.

Thus technically this game has defined a different f(x,y,z), the Qualify and Good Hand values and introduced "other factors" for paying the bonus - i.e. how various three-card hands are valued, the cut-off point where the dealer qualifies and times when a bonus is paid.

Personally I think it's possible some people may find the hand ranking slightly harder to master than poker and most will prefer the 3CP method of paying the bonus on all good hands.

As has been said people will compare this game with 3CP, essentially because you are dealt three cards and make an Ante and 1xRaise.

Quote: Hittem

Apparently you did misunderstand the game. One game you are playing poker. One game you aren't. Pretty simple actually.
Just because the betting structure is the same, doesn't mean it is a variant. DJ Wild and Flushes Gone Wild have the same Ante, Blind, 2x betting structure. But one isn't a variant of the other. It is two different games in which you're trying to beat the dealer by doing something different.

I get what you are trying to illustrate in your analogy, but it doesn't quite work. Here is why:

How many cards are used in DJ Wild? And how many in Flushes Gone Wild?
Does DJW use community cards? Does FGW?
Do you make your play decision before or after seeing all the cards that make up your hand in DJ Wild? How about Flushes Gone Wild?

These are key play features that distinguish DJW from FGW along with the different scoring system. A scoring system change alone does not create a "new game" feel for players.

Here's a fictitious new game comparison, tell me if you think they are variants of each other or not:

The first game is standard baccarat. The second game is also a Banker or Player betting decision but we call the two mutually exclusive bets "Dealer" or "Player". After the player makes their bet decision on the Dealer or Player hand, the dealer deals the Dealer and the Player hands two cards each. The game uses the blackjack point scoring system. There are drawing rules for each hand that determine if and when a third card is drawn for each hand dependent on these drawing rules. The hands are compared after any draw cards are dealt and bets on the winning hand are paid even money (less a 5% commission on winning Dealer bets), and bets on the losing hand are collected.

Is this new game a baccarat variant or a totally new game? Assume that based on the above the only differences between the two games are that one uses a baccarat scoring system and the other uses a blackjack scoring system.

Two different games.

One game you are playing poker, one game you aren't. It's quite simple. A identical betting structure doesn't make a game a variant if you are playing a totally different concept. One game you'd fold a QH, 10H, 8H, the other you'd play.

Enlighten me how Six Card Poker is a Three Card Poker variant. I'm interested to read this analysis since the betting structure is identical, the decision point is the same, there's a qualifying hand, and the deck has the same amount of cards......

With your flawed logic, you are saying that Three Card Mulligan, Ultimate Three Card, and other variants aren't actually variants of TCP.

I see these games as similar in structure but different in classification. Kind of like tennis and ping pong (I think "table tennis" sounds snobbish). Very similar structure, but certainly not interchangeable games. I definitely don't like the Pairplus bet and would have done a side bet as Vegas Three Card Rummy does, based on the points in the hand. As much as I like to be be friendly with Shufflemaster, I don't know what they were thinking there.

Hittem you are right...value add criteria not met...moving on.

Could you start a new thread and post that math Analysis on the 135% player edge in Texas Switch. I am waiting to see your outcome there.

Quote: Paradigm

Hittem you are right...value add criteria not ving on.

Could you start a new thread and post that math Analysis on the 135% player edge in Texas Switch. I am waiting to see your outcome there.

I was given the incorrect rules at the show, so my math wasn't applicable to the correct rules for Texas Switch.

With that said, the bonus wager had a paytable with a 109% RTP. Bad "mistake" for a game in a competition.

Quote: Wizard

I see these games as similar in structure but different in classification. Kind of like tennis and ping pong (I think "table tennis" sounds snobbish). Very similar structure, but certainly not interchangeable games. I definitely don't like the Pairplus bet and would have done a side bet as Vegas Three Card Rummy does, based on the points in the hand. As much as I like to be be friendly with Shufflemaster, I don't know what they were thinking there.

I agree. It seems odd to use two very different valuations on the same cards at the same table. I think it will make it harder for people to evaluate their hands as they switch back and forth, though there's some value overlap, even if counted differently. Are we absolutely sure the PP bet can only be won if the player plays the main hand?

Deleted

Did Triple Shit Rummy ever make it? In 2021, is it in any brick and mortar casinos anywhere in the U.S.?