How do I attack this Table Game Tourney Promo?
Over Labor day I have been entered into the following tournament by my host in Vegas.
ONE ENTRY INTO THE TRIPLE TABLE TOURNAMENT
1st Place - $125,000
2nd Place - $50,000
3rd Place - $25,000
All winnings will be paid in Casino Play. Choice of Gaming Vouchers/Reel Rewards.
*Maximum of 30 players
Each Entrant will play three games - one round of Blackjack, one round of Roulette, and one round of Baccarat.
One round of Blackjack consists of 20 hands. One round of Roulette consists of 10 rolls of the ball. One round of Baccarat consists of 20 hands.
There will be 10 people per game in a single round. (2 tables of Blackjack, 2 tables of Mini-Baccarat in a round, and 2 tables of roulette.)
Ten (10) people play Blackjack at one time, ten (10) people play Baccarat at one time, and ten (10) people play roulette at one time.
Once the 20 hands/10 rolls of the ball have been dealt the customer will proceed to the next game.
At the start of each game – blackjack, roulette, baccarat the customer will receive $50K in tournament chips to play with. At the end of the session the chips will be counted out.
At the end of the three games whichever customer has the highest combined scores between the three games wins.
Minimum bet for all three games is $500 and maximum bet is $10,000.
*** Last hand in BJ and Baccarat may be unlimited. ***
_______________________________________________
Now on the surface it would seem to me that the group playing Roulette last has a huge advantage as the longshot roulette bets have the same house edge as just betting red or black. If you are so far behind while playing the other rounds towards the end it would seem like you would have to make larger -EV bets like betting tie in Baccarat, doubling on 14 in BJ, etc.
Anybody have any advice as to how to play this tourney with these rules? I am not super familiar with BJ tournaments although I know there is some written literature out there by Stanford Wong. I figure most of the guys playing this freeroll are going to be pretty big whales and no APs so I was looking for the best way to think about this contest.
Welcome to the forum! Just curious, do you have any association with the CrushLivePoker website/forum? I really enjoy participating over there from time to time.
I am not an AP, so I'll let them be your experts. I think your last-ditch scenario could well come true, though. Hopefully you won't need it, but you might be in a position where you could minbet a number or two and benefit. Lot of luck involved there with only 10 spins with which to work.
Personally: On roulette tourneys, I'm pretty fond of the James Bond method (play 2 of the 3 dozens in either direction, move each bet after it loses 2x, get a net +1 for each win). How much you bet depends on where in the rotation you catch the table, but somewhere between 1/10 and 1/5 your BR each time. Positive Martingale 3x your winnings.
On BJ, I like to start relatively passive, use what info you can betting your position, again positive Martingale when it's to your advantage based on position, aggressive in later hands if necessary, but if you've doubled up your BR or better in the first 15 hands, maybe minbet and let others crash.
Haven't played any baccarat tourneys, but I guess I would again start passive (around 1/20 to 1/10 BR) and positive Martingale any winnings, whether full or partial, gauging that on where other players appear to be. I would guess bet position will rotate, so you'll have to watch and react to that to some extent, but you'll only have 1/6 of the info unless they count and announce standings after each rotation. Take all or part down after 3x wins. Again, whether you go for broke on last hand will depend on where you stand.
Again, JMHO.
I would agree that at roulette its going to be 5.26 percent house edge, so if you either 'know or feel' your lagging behind the field, then go for broke with some wild bets that are straight up or column bets, otherwise bet by the dozens and hope you are lucky.
at baccarat avoid the five percent commission, bet on Player and risk some money on tie, particularly if you feel others are in the lead.
at blackjack go for all double downs and splits you can even if slightly ill advised.
good luck to you and welcome to the forum
(and pls forgive my errant capless keyboard).
Quote: beachbumbabsCrush,
Welcome to the forum! Just curious, do you have any association with the CrushLivePoker website/forum? I really enjoy participating over there from time to time.
I am not an AP, so I'll let them be your experts. I think your last-ditch scenario could well come true, though. Hopefully you won't need it, but you might be in a position where you could minbet a number or two and benefit. Lot of luck involved there with only 10 spins with which to work.
Personally: On roulette tourneys, I'm pretty fond of the James Bond method (play 2 of the 3 dozens in either direction, move each bet after it loses 2x, get a net +1 for each win). How much you bet depends on where in the rotation you catch the table, but somewhere between 1/10 and 1/5 your BR each time. Positive Martingale 3x your winnings.
On BJ, I like to start relatively passive, use what info you can betting your position, again positive Martingale when it's to your advantage based on position, aggressive in later hands if necessary, but if you've doubled up your BR or better in the first 15 hands, maybe minbet and let others crash.
Haven't played any baccarat tourneys, but I guess I would again start passive (around 1/20 to 1/10 BR) and positive Martingale any winnings, whether full or partial, gauging that on where other players appear to be. I would guess bet position will rotate, so you'll have to watch and react to that to some extent, but you'll only have 1/6 of the info unless they count and announce standings after each rotation. Take all or part down after 3x wins. Again, whether you go for broke on last hand will depend on where you stand.
Again, JMHO.
Yes, I am the owner, Bart Hanson. Thanks for your warm words about my site.
Quote: CrushLivePokerYes, I am the owner, Bart Hanson. Thanks for your warm words about my site.
Great to have you here, Bart! I hope you decide to get involved in some discussions; I enjoy following you on the Circuit. I'm a paid member of your site under a different name.
Quote: CrushLivePokerNow on the surface it would seem to me that the group playing Roulette last has a huge advantage as the longshot roulette bets have the same house edge as just betting red or black.
Not that huge. If someone has nothing after two rounds, they will take five shots at winning $360,000 (14%). But if you play roulette first, you can take 10 shots (27%) each for $180,000. If you hit one, you can play conservative until the very end and then shove everything on your last hand of baccarat. So long as you win that (50%) along with one of the roulette bets (.5 * .27) you'll have a great chance of winning money
Because there will be up to 300 bets made on roulette, someone should hit the 35-1 payout that puts them in position to win. Going first or last doesn't change the odds that it will be you. . .
Quote: ajemeisterif you lose your promo chips during one of the three sessions, are you kicked out of the tournament? or is each session independent?
I will try and get some clarification on this but the rules state:
"At the start of each game – blackjack, roulette, baccarat the customer will receive $50K in tournament chips to play with. At the end of the session the chips will be counted out.
At the end of the three games whichever customer has the highest combined scores between the three games wins."
I would interpret this as starting with $50k in tourney chips no matter what the outcome is in your previous round. Obviously if you busted in a round and then were forced to forfeit your play in subsequent rounds do to going broke this would suggest a more conservative strategy I would think.
Quote: TomGNot that huge. If someone has nothing after two rounds, they will take five shots at winning $360,000 (14%). But if you play roulette first, you can take 10 shots (27%) each for $180,000. If you hit one, you can play conservative until the very end and then shove everything on your last hand of baccarat. So long as you win that (50%) along with one of the roulette bets (.5 * .27) you'll have a great chance of winning money
Because there will be up to 300 bets made on roulette, someone should hit the 35-1 payout that puts them in position to win. Going first or last doesn't change the odds that it will be you. . .
Is there any difference between using this strategy or martingaleing Red/Black to said $180,000 then betting minimum the rest of the way? This is why the roulette round is so intriguing to me because all the bets have the same EV, -5.26%.
Quote: CrushLivePokerI would interpret this as starting with $50k and tourney chips no matter what the outcome is in your previous round.
I interpret this as getting $50k for each round, and your final chip counts in each round get added together to form your final score.
If you want to adjust your play mid-round, I think you need spotters reporting to you on how other tournament players are doing.
Quote: DieterI interpret this as getting $50k for each round, and your final chip counts in each round get added together to form your final score.
If you want to adjust your play mid-round, I think you need spotters reporting to you on how other tournament players are doing.
Right. You start with 50k in chips at the beginning of each game regardless of your result in the previous game. Your total chips are tallied up at the end of all three games. Do you think that changes the strategy at all? Not sure if I am going to be able to have spotters. But I do have a friend coming with me so its not a bad idea to sort of "have a rail".
Quote: CrushLivePokerIs there any difference between using this strategy or martingaleing Red/Black to said $180,000 then betting minimum the rest of the way?
The best you could possibly do betting red / black is to win $100,000. And the chance of that is extremely small, less than 1 in 1000.
Quote: TomGThe best you could possibly do betting red / black is to win $100,000. And the chance of that is extremely small, less than 1 in 1000.
Ah yes..Because of the max bet of $10k!!
Makes sense now thanks. So do you think that it is best to go with the strategy of betting $5k a roll on one square until number hits if roulette is in first two rounds and if its in final round adjusting betting accordingly to catch up with leaders?
Also, solid cash game showing at Turning Stone.
If I put up $10K, do you think we can pull Seebs away from the adult entertainment industry for a day and get ol' GSmith from the Yukon down to Vegas to do a PRR reunion show?
🎶 "Bart's so vain. VAIN!" 🎶
Quote: CrushLivePokerif its in final round adjusting betting accordingly to catch up with leaders?
How much of an adjustment would even be possible from the best strategy? If you push everything in on the final hands of baccarat and blackjack and win both and hit any middle number on roulette you will be in a great position to win the tournament. There is roughly a 6% of winning all those, which seems like a good deal if you are only one out of 30 players. There won't be too many possibilities where deviating from that strategy will help. The exception would be if you over-perform by enough in the first two rounds be more conservative at the end to secure top three
(I am operating on the assumption that there will be 30 players. If there is less than that, it may be best to change things)
Quote: chaunceyb3I don't have anything constructive to add to this discussion but I would like to say I've enjoyed all of your media content, including Cash Plays, PRR, Deuce Plays, LATB, and the Aussie Millions cash game.
Also, solid cash game showing at Turning Stone.
If I put up $10K, do you think we can pull Seebs away from the adult entertainment industry for a day and get ol' GSmith from the Yukon down to Vegas to do a PRR reunion show?
🎶 "Bart's so vain. VAIN!" 🎶
I think that that was done with the "B" team this summer on the Pokernews podcast. Last I heard Sebok stomping on grapes at some winery.
Quote: TomGHow much of an adjustment would even be possible from the best strategy? If you push everything in on the final hands of baccarat and blackjack and win both and hit any middle number on roulette you will be in a great position to win the tournament. There is roughly a 6% of winning all those, which seems like a good deal if you are only one out of 30 players. There won't be too many possibilities where deviating from that strategy will help. The exception would be if you over-perform by enough in the first two rounds be more conservative at the end to secure top three
(I am operating on the assumption that there will be 30 players. If there is less than that, it may be best to change things)
I assume then that it's not really worth it for me to trudge through that Stanford Wong tourney blackjack book with this type of contest? I think that I will have a good leg up with my game theory background from playing poker professionally for the last 10 years. Seems like the best route is to not deviate from optimal basic strategy accept in choosing bet sizing..
