I'm beat!

Yesterday was the final day of our annual 4-day fundraising festival at our school. By early counts, over 150,000 people visited the campus to enjoy food, rides, bands, dancing and, our Vegas Tent. About 3,000 people came into the tent to gamble a few sheckles on their favorite game(s).

Attached is a picture of the tent after we started to tear everything down at about 7:00 pm. During the event, the tent contained 20 blackjack, 3 let-it ride, 10 holdem, 3 money wheels, 2 14' craps (see video), 2 20' double-roulette, 1 9' single-roulette. Every table was jammed with players from 3:00 PM until closing at 1:00 AM. All wagers were in the $2-$5 variety. Action was so hot and heavy that some volunteer dealers stated that they would never sigh up for this job again!

In all the years I have done this, this was the strangest action that I have ever seen on roulette. On all 5 layouts, 95% players simply bet straight up numbers.No splits, no box, no corners, no columns. Just straight up. And, most put out max bets ($5) on about 5 numbers per spin, hoping for the big payout (25:1).

While a few hit their spot, I have to tell you, it was, for the most part, a bloody massacre. Players would hang in for about 5-10 spins, bust out and go back to the bank to buy more chips. Then, they would come right back to the table and the whole thing would repeat.

Another thing.... Players love to put their chip where another player has a bet down. The probably figure that the other player has a lucky hunch or something. So, we took all the bets down when a different number dropped. On one spin, I had 8 $5 wagers on #23. Came up "00". Ouch! Still, the players enjoyed it as the beer was flowing and they simply walked over to another game after busting out. Our take roulette was about 70%. As I said, it was a massacre.

Only one bad incident all weekend when a BJ player attempted to relieve himself while playing blackjack. Needless to say, he left the tent not of his own free will.

The biggest grief that occurred came from the State. The recently imposed a rule that any person that works as a dealer at an event, must undergo a criminal background check, including a copy of a driver's license or ID. The trouble is, they failed to notify us of this new rule until a week before the vent. And, it takes 2 weeks to process the background check. That's when we called the powers that be in the State capital. Even with the pressure from upstairs, the still failed to process over 40 volunteer dealers--people we rely upon to work the tables. And, these people are VOLUNTEERS! So, as a result, we put out a call to every dealer agency in town to simply have dealers at the table--at a cost of about $125 per-dealer per-shift. Needless to say, I am not a happy camper at the moment.

So today, I'm taking the day off to rest after 6 straight days of preparing for and working the event. I'm 100% beat!

http://tinypic.com/r/2n66yqc/8

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=j60lrd%3E&s=8#.VWSl-0arHFM

Quote: Riva

hoping for the big payout (25:1).

Massacre is right.

Quote: Avincow

Massacre is right.

It's a charity. Not a casino.

Very Nice!

What State if I may ask?

I'm guessing the NE somewhere.

Orchard Lake, Michigan.

The state and casinos are doing everything in their power to get these poker rooms/Vegas nights eliminated and illegal.

The state giving you a hard time doesn't surprise me.

But didn't you recently report that one of the new changes is that the casino staff must all be volunteers associated with the organization? That said, why did they allow you to hire outside dealers?

Quote: Riva

It's a charity. Not a casino.

Quite right, but there is a tipping point where you provide games "to try to win at" when the math behind it says you can't win. I don't take any issue with charity events posting their crummy rules then stating "hey, it's for charity." But I do take issue with "come try to win money in our Vegas tent! We have everything a normal casino would have!" ...When mathematically you're no where near a regular casino, which usually has no issues fleecing people.

Also, most of the people at these events are drinking a lot and hardly playing close to a 'basic strategy' in any of the games. Hence the guy trying to deal "the river card" at your blackjack table. What I guess I'm trying to say is even if you took regular casino odds, you could figure in another 2-3% HE just from the drunk flailing of people whom know they're drinking and flailing for a charity. So to butcher the payouts THAT much more to me isn't a fundraiser, but a greedy misleading slaughter.

I hope you didn't burn people so bad they won't ever come back next year. Most casinos and businesses for this matter don't see this, and it astonishes me... Would you rather make 10k per year at this event for the next 10 years (i.e. $100,000) or would you rather make $20k per year for the next 3 years before turning people off from playing (i.e. $60,000)? Most casinos/businesses just want to try to up their profits THIS year and don't think about the long term effects.

Charity event nonwithstanding, I can't imagine its a good idea to use a copyrighted game like "Let it Ride" when you haven't paid the appropriate licensing fees to do so. And of all the games to cherry pick from, that's the one you pick.

Quote: PGBuster

Charity event nonwithstanding, I can't imagine its a good idea to use a copyrighted game like "Let it Ride" when you haven't paid the appropriate licensing fees to do so. And of all the games to cherry pick from, that's the one you pick.

It's been found in Vegas nights for years.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

The state giving you a hard time doesn't surprise me.

But didn't you recently report that one of the new changes is that the casino staff must all be volunteers associated with the organization? That said, why did they allow you to hire outside dealers?

4 days prior to the event, the State had not processed the criminal background check on about 60 of our volunteer dealers. We had no choice but to go out and hire dealers otherwise there would be no one to deal the darn games. By Friday (the day of the event) we had 30 people approved. 30 people were never processed. Some worked in other areas of the event (food and beverage, etc.) but some were told to go home.

Personally, I think it is wrong for the State to require a criminal background check for a person working as a dealer at a church or school related function on their own premises and for $0 pay. It's all being done because of all the skank that is going on in the "charity" poker rooms throughout the State. Unfortunately, all charity gaming, poker and traditional events like mine, fall under the same law so, we are all painted with the same proverbial brush.

I think it is crazy that people think criminal backgrounds checks are not necessary. All that cash and all those kids and you don't think trying to weed out criminals is necessary. Many school districts now require background checks on anyone involved in school events, even volunteers and at least locally the prevs still find a way into the schools.

Quote: Riva

The biggest grief that occurred came from the State.

Boy, isn't this always the case.

But congratulations on a successful event. You have to win a lot of $2 and $5 bets to pay a $125 per shift dealer.

Quote: zoobrew

I think it is crazy that people think criminal backgrounds checks are not necessary. All that cash and all those kids and you don't think trying to weed out criminals is necessary. Many school districts now require background checks on anyone involved in school events, even volunteers and at least locally the prevs still find a way into the schools.

Didn't you just answer your own question? The criminals can and do find a way in despite all the barriers. The barriers end up costing the charity thousands of dollars while not increasing security and you "think it is crazy that people think criminal backgrounds (sic) checks are not necessary."

Quote: bigfoot66

Didn't you just answer your own question? The criminals can and do find a way in despite all the barriers. The barriers end up costing the charity thousands of dollars while not increasing security and you "think it is crazy that people think criminal backgrounds (sic) checks are not necessary."

By your logic I should not lock my car or home doors because criminals can still break into my car/house even with locks. Criminal background checks will at least weed out the know criminals, who commit the majority of crimes.

Quote: zoobrew

By your logic I should not lock my car or home doors because criminals can still break into my car/house even with locks. Criminal background checks will at least weed out the know criminals, who commit the majority of crimes.

I don't disagree with your logic however, these volunteers are, for the most part, parents of the children attending a church-related school at a cost of about $15,000 per kid, per year. Hardly your criminal profile.

That said, only 3 people actually touch real money. And, there is rarely enough chips in a dealer's tray to get hurt, even if somebody were to grab it and run out the door.

Dealer/player collusion? Could it happen? Sure. However, our floor supervisors know that if a dealer needs more than one fill per shift, they are very unlucky or very stupid, or both.

Quote: bigfoot66

Boy, isn't this always the case.

But congratulations on a successful event. You have to win a lot of $2 and $5 bets to pay a $125 per shift dealer.

You are 100% correct. Some BJ tables don't even make that much for the night. The big earners for us are roulette (5 layouts) and craps (2 14') and, of all things, the Big 6 money wheel. With regard to the wheel, the person dealing that game needs to have Tommy John surgery after the weekend is over. The wheel never stops spinning and players keep putting $5 on either the Joker or the flag or both and nothing else. It's a riot. http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=5v9eo2%3E&s=8#.VWX0QkarHFM

What are the blackjack rules at this event?

Quote: Avincow

What are the blackjack rules at this event?

$2 min. $5 max

Double on anything

5 cards under 21 automatic win

split aces cannot BJ

BJ pays 2:1

Dealer can hit soft 17

House takes ties

Dealers never shuffle. New/shuffled 8 deck shoe brought out to them when current shoe empties.

Quote: Riva

4 days prior to the event, the State had not processed the criminal background check on about 60 of our volunteer dealers. We had no choice but to go out and hire dealers otherwise there would be no one to deal the darn games. By Friday (the day of the event) we had 30 people approved. 30 people were never processed. Some worked in other areas of the event (food and beverage, etc.) but some were told to go home.

Personally, I think it is wrong for the State to require a criminal background check for a person working as a dealer at a church or school related function on their own premises and for $0 pay. It's all being done because of all the skank that is going on in the "charity" poker rooms throughout the State. Unfortunately, all charity gaming, poker and traditional events like mine, fall under the same law so, we are all painted with the same proverbial brush.

I get all that, but I thought you had reported a few weeks ago that the new law forbid paying ANY of the gaming staff.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I get all that, but I thought you had reported a few weeks ago that the new law forbid paying ANY of the gaming staff.

If that we're the case, none of the charity poker rooms would be open here. To some of those dealers, it's their only income. And that was a max of $50 a night. I don't know what the max is now.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I get all that, but I thought you had reported a few weeks ago that the new law forbid paying ANY of the gaming staff.

The bill has not been signed into law as yet. So, were still operating under the old emergency regulations put in force last July. These allow for a charity to hire dealers along with your own volunteers. At issue here is that the state added even MORE regulations to the background check requiring a photo ID and nobody knew the regulation even existed until 4 days before our event. That forced us to hire dealers otherwise we would have empty tables.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

If that we're the case, none of the charity poker rooms would be open here. To some of those dealers, it's their only income. And that was a max of $50 a night. I don't know what the max is now.

No, the new law, if signed into law, states that if you are your own location (we are), own 100% of your own equipment (we do) and are staffed 100% by volunteers (we will be) then, you can leverage the $15,000 per day in chips sales in any manner over the number of days of the event.

In our case, we have a 4-day event. Currently, over the 4 days, we cannot sell more than $15,000 in chip on any given day. This hurts us because on Friday and Saturday, we could easily sell $20,000 -$25,000 in chips per night. The new law would allow us to do just that, leaving us with say, $10,000 to $15,000 to sell over Sunday and Monday, which happen to be very slow days for us. For example, last Monday, we only sold $8,000 in chips.

Quote: Riva

No, the new law, if signed into law, states that if you are your own location (we are), own 100% of your own equipment (we do) and are staffed 100% by volunteers (we will be) then, you can leverage the $15,000 per day in chips sales in any manner over the number of days of the event.

In our case, we have a 4-day event. Currently, over the 4 days, we cannot sell more than $15,000 in chip on any given day. This hurts us because on Friday and Saturday, we could easily sell $20,000 -$25,000 in chips per night. The new law would allow us to do just that, leaving us with say, $10,000 to $15,000 to sell over Sunday and Monday, which happen to be very slow days for us. For example, last Monday, we only sold $8,000 in chips.

That part I get. It's how the poker dealers are at the poker rooms that I was questioning.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

That part I get. It's how the poker dealers are at the poker rooms that I was questioning.

The poker rooms and the dealer would not be effected by this new law (if it becomes law). That's because, as you know, the poker room itself is not owned by the charity and the dealers work for a licensed supplier. Because of that, they would still be limited to selling only $15,000 per day in chips. Conversely, since we own are own location, equipment and are staffed by volunteers, we can bundle the $15,000 per day in chip sales in any manner we want over the number of days of our event. So, if we had a 2-day event, we could conceivably sell $29,000 in chips on day #1 and $1,000 in chips on day #2. But again, you have to meet the qualifications I just detailed to have that privilege.

Basically what this does is to protect an organization that sponsors an event over a number of days, an opportunity to recover income lost from a bad weather day(s) where people stay home rather than come to the event.

Gotcha.

Quote: zoobrew

By your logic I should not lock my car or home doors because criminals can still break into my car/house even with locks. Criminal background checks will at least weed out the know criminals, who commit the majority of crimes.

I disagree with the idea of making it mandatory. Of course if we take more precautions we can prevent some negatives from happening but the precautions are not free. If the speed limit was 5 MPH on all roads we would save over 30,000 American lives that are lost in collisions each year. The costs of lowering the speed limit that much are tremendous though.

The point is that people like Riva who are running the event have their own money on the line ought to be allowed to make decisions like this and weigh the costs versus the risk. The idea that central planners in the state capitol or DC have the right answer, and that the right answer is the same for hundreds of millions of people, is crazy.

Quote: Riva

we could conceivably sell $29,000 in chips on day #1 and $1,000 in chips on day #2

Do you need to set your daily limits in advance, or can you do it as you go?

So, for your 4 day event, you can sell up to $60k on day 1, only sell $12325, so you have up to $47675 available on day 2... etc?

Quote: Dieter

Do you need to set your daily limits in advance, or can you do it as you go?

So, for your 4 day event, you can sell up to $60k on day 1, only sell $12325, so you have up to $47675 available on day 2... etc?

Short answer: yes. However, the bill that would permit this "special treatment" still must go through some more legislative votes before it becomes law.

Some charities that work only through poker rooms to raise money will bitch because they will want the same financial flexibility. To those groups I will tell them that they can enjoy these exact same privileges "if" they (1) conduct their event at their own location, (2) own their own equipment and (3) use 100% volunteer work force. Of course, they can't, or won't unless they make the same financial investment in charitable gaming that organizations like mine and others like mine that says you have more skin in the game than buying a $50 charitable gaming license from the State. We probably have $100,000 in equipment built up over the years. Literally tens of thousands of volunteer man-hours are donated at each event. To me, that makes us different.

Quote: zoobrew

I think it is crazy that people think criminal backgrounds checks are not necessary. All that cash and all those kids and you don't think trying to weed out criminals is necessary. Many school districts now require background checks on anyone involved in school events, even volunteers and at least locally the prevs still find a way into the schools.

Strange that they require a backround check on the volunteers but they have no problem letting the event steal from players.

Hi Riva, I couldn't resist. I have been gentle lately.

Quote: GWAE

Strange that they require a backround check on the volunteers but they have no problem letting the event steal from players.

Hi Riva, I couldn't resist. I have been gentle lately.

If they don't, the state will steal it from them somehow :-)

Quote: GWAE

Strange that they require a backround check on the volunteers but they have no problem letting the event steal from players.

Hi Riva, I couldn't resist. I have been gentle lately.

Fully understand and, I forgive you! :)

While we had a banner year in our Vegas Tent, several players went home with a LOT more than they came in with. We had one guy hold the dice on one of our craps table for about 45 minutes. He won about $1,500 before giving back about $500. While we have a $500 cap on winnings, he simply handed off $500 to a pal, checked out, and went home happy. We really don't care so long as the tent is profitable at the end of the weekend. Besides, his winning streak dragged in about 50 players to the tables, and they were not as lucky.

Quote: PGBuster

Charity event nonwithstanding, I can't imagine its a good idea to use a copyrighted game like "Let it Ride" when you haven't paid the appropriate licensing fees to do so. And of all the games to cherry pick from, that's the one you pick.

I was pursued pretty aggressively by a gambling supply outfit to return my Three Card Poker layout for a refund once SHFL got a hold of them for illegally selling it online and I was not using if for any commercial purpose.

It would make sense to me if Riva simply contacted Bally and asked permission to use the game for the 4 day event, my guess is for a charity event, you get an easy yes from Bally with no payment required. In fact you could even look to see if they would let you use Three Card or some of the rest of their library. For the right cause and maybe some recognition, I would think they would good with it, but who knows.

Quote: Paradigm

I was pursued pretty aggressively by a gambling supply outfit to return my Three Card Poker layout for a refund once SHFL got a hold of them for illegally selling it online and I was not using if for any commercial purpose.

It would make sense to me if Riva simply contacted Bally and asked permission to use the game for the 4 day event, my guess is for a charity event, you get an easy yes from Bally with no payment required. In fact you could even look to see if they would let you use Three Card or some of the rest of their library. For the right cause and maybe some recognition, I would think they would good with it, but who knows.

For the record...these tables were donated to us by a school patron who was, at one time, in the party rental business. Once were informed that this game was protected by copy-write, we immediately removed the tables from the tent. Not one hand was played from these tables during our event.

I'm told that let-it-ride nets the house only slightly more $$ than BJ, but with a LOT more work (dealer-wise), I'm not so sure that the novelty of this game is worth it, in the grand scheme of things.

I hope you raised a lot of money.

I for one would enjoy the social aspect of an event like this, knowing full well that the odds are stacked against me, 'cuz it's a charity event. I do know where ROMES is coming from, and that is also worth taking into account.

I worked hard raising money for one of the groups at the local High School for a couple of years. I also felt that the money that was raised from a ton of volunteer hours should also be spent very, very wisely. It wasn't. And that's why I am not actively involved in that fund-raising anymore.

But I am happy to support the United Way through work paycheck deductions.

Quote: JohnnyQ

I hope you raised a lot of money.


I worked hard raising money for one of the groups at the local High School for a couple of years. I also felt that the money that was raised from a ton of volunteer hours should also be spent very, very wisely. It wasn't. And that's why I am not actively involved in that fund-raising anymore.

I squint my eyes at some of that stuff too. 100% of the money we raise goes to help families who might not otherwise be able to afford to send their child to our school. The are countless organizations that are involved in charitable gaming as a way to help others.

edit

Edit.

I commented that Riva may have opened a can of worms. Riva has since deleted the item I was referring to.

Quote: Riva

I squint my eyes at some of that stuff too. 100% of the money we raise goes to help families who might not otherwise be able to afford to send their child to our school.

Then it should be a very good (although a "100% beat" as you put it) feeling to know you worked hard to help others.

New ruling out in Michigan today not sure if this effects your games or not

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2015/05/29/michigan-appeals-court-upholds-charity-poker-rules/28147351/

Quote: coilman

New ruling out in Michigan today not sure if this effects your games or not

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2015/05/29/michigan-appeals-court-upholds-charity-poker-rules/28147351/

Just noticed it. Thanks.

Very confusing article. I will have to make some calls to get better definition.

All of this noise comes as a result of the poker rooms. Regrettably, all charitable gaming, poker and traditional games like mine, fall under the same law and regulations. Thus, when the State imposes new regulation specifically to control issues emerging from the poker room, there is very little consideration how those regulation impact non-poker gaming.

For those unfamiliar with Michigan's poker room gaming, it has become a $300 million dollar "industry" over the last decade. All that's need is a non-profit to buy a $50 license and have a minimum of 3 members of the organization present at their own event. Typically, a bar, restaurant of banquet hall hosts the game (for a fee) and a licensed supplier provides the equipment, tables and dealers (also for a fee). So, it does not take much of an "investment' on the non-profit organization's part to conduct a fundraising event.

The trouble that has emerged is that in the past, incredibly, some charities did not show up for their own event, leaving 100% control AND THE CASH to the location and/or supplier. Plus, many organizations, either knowingly or unknowingly, sold chips in excess of the $15,000 per day wager limit. Some by 10's of thousands of dollars per day. Then, there are crooked dealers, drugs and an assortment of other abuses. The State was forced to move in because things got out of control. Again, what they did in response to the poker rooms hurts organizations like mine.

What separates organizations like mine from the poker rooms is that our event is conducted at our own location, we own 100% of the equipment and tables and 98% of the workforce is volunteer.

In many ways, the organizations are being taken advantage of by the locations and suppliers because of their "smallness". The charities know this and many are powerless to change the situation and are happy to make a just few meager dollars from their events and pay the rooms and suppliers royally. If they were smart, they should work as a cooperative, as opposed to singularly, in order to keep the lion's share of the revenue, like we do. It aint that difficult at the end of the day.