Mt. Airy Casino Now Prohibits "Loaning" Chips at Mississippi Stud
Sometimes players are short. If you have a winning hand and don't have enough to triple, it's no big deal to borrow chips from another player. If you have a push or a wimner, we know we are getting our chips back. Most of us have loaned or borrowed chips. Once you win or push, you return the chips to the other player.
As of this week, Mt. Airy now prohibits this practice. I asked the dealer and they were unsure of why. Its not sharing a bank - it's loaning money.
Anybody have any theories? Does a rule like this need to be in the PA Gaming Commision rules or can the casino make up their own rules?
I work in WA. Our store had a similar policy. Over time, our management has eased up on the policy, realizing they can trust the dealers to be on top of it, and only allow passing of chips in situations like the one you describe.
Besides, when you have a rule against passing chips, players just look for ways around the rule anyway, like passing chips under the table or stepping outside.
I guess have to be more careful with our banks now. Or practice our under-the-table passes.
From a dealer's perspective, I prefer it. It means that I don't have to hold up the game in the middle of the hand so somebody can dig into their wallet then have me change it out for them. This is especially true for MS Stud since the payouts (when they occur!) are relatively high compared to the initial ante.
It might be a gray area for the casino, so most dealers don't actively promote loaning, but we certainly don't discourage it if other players bring it up.
Quote: VenthusIt may be a difference in what game it is, but I always consider it to just be 'buying' the bet when somebody's short, unless terms are explicitly negotiated. I assume the risk for what I put up; I claim the winnings, if any.
This is the variable that would lead to it being prohibited, I think. Some players are loaning chips for that hand only. Others are co-banking and expect not just their chips back, but the winnings from those particular chips. And if the bet is lost, who is forcing the loser to pay back the loaner? They might be broke or unwilling to spend more money even if they do have it in their wallet.
I have loaned many times, and occasionally accepted a red to make a bet, paying it back immediately. But that's me, and I've not had problems in either direction. There is an implied debt in some way after the bet is resolved, win or lose, that depends on ethical action from two players, and on occasion, ethics fail people. So I can see why the casino is not interested in facilitating this kind of activity, as it can turn a table sour at a moment's notice.
Quote: TriathlonToddThere's sometimes a misunderstanding on some games about whether the extra money was intended to be a co-banking thing where the lender gets the payoff in addition to the original loan back. Most players intend it as a very short term loan.
From a dealer's perspective, I prefer it. It means that I don't have to hold up the game in the middle of the hand so somebody can dig into their wallet then have me change it out for them. This is especially true for MS Stud since the payouts (when they occur!) are relatively high compared to the initial ante.
It might be a gray area for the casino, so most dealers don't actively promote loaning, but we certainly don't discourage it if other players bring it up.
Looks like we have another dealer on the forum! Welcome TriathlonTodd (sorry if I missed a welcome in another thread). Always nice to get the dealer perspective as the majority of folks here are players.
Quote: AcesAndEightsLooks like we have another dealer on the forum! Welcome TriathlonTodd (sorry if I missed a welcome in another thread). Always nice to get the dealer perspective as the majority of folks here are players.
Thanks for the welcome!
Ever since I was in middle school, I had a dream of becoming a dealer. I blame the movies I guess. So, I intentionally left college for a year and was a dealer on the LV Strip. Then, I returned to college to finish up and became an actuary for five years (like the Wizard was in a previous life). I came to the conclusion that career wasn't for me, so I've been a dealer at an Iowa casino since. I will most likely be moving back to LV in the summer and in my spare time will be making logic games and/or card based games for Android devices.
Quote: Mission146I called and spoke with Louie from Tables who said they do have that side bet.
Thanks
Long story short I got trips and gave the guy his money back. For the next few minutes all he could talk about was how I should give him an extra chip or two for letting me use his chips.
Quote: RSI was at an MS game, got a high pair, but not enough chips to 333 bet. Had plenty of money (I'm not stupid!) to buy in more, but it was almost time for dealer change (my que for leaving), so I asked the guy next to me if I could borrow some chips because I already had a winner and didn't want to buy in again.
Long story short I got trips and gave the guy his money back. For the next few minutes all he could talk about was how I should give him an extra chip or two for letting me use his chips.
That's ridiculous. I have loaned chips and never had the expectation of being given back more than I gave. I might have thought in my head, "that would be nice," especially if they had a big win, but the thought lasts for three seconds and I certainly would never say anything, nor would I care much. I'd tip the table for quads or better in MS but I don't think I'd give away money other than that, unless for a very good reason.
Still not a definitive answer so I guess it will just depend on who the dealer or floorperson is that night.
Quote: onenickelmiracleI don't think the casino can actually prohibit this. They want to because it passive aggressively inhibits winning bets and the practice of loaning inhibits new money from entering the table. They don't care about extraneous things like bad loans because it really doesn't cost them money. Every casino has a gaming office where you can file a complaint if you want. Just ask security where they hide them there. I've recently done so and wasn't a big deal but was scary thinking of it.
Sure they care about things like bad loans.
They don't want arguments at the table over that kind of crap.
Obviously they don't want a dispute however that's got to be rare. I can't imagine they would want to piss off the regulars just because of a few conflicts. However if its costing them money daily. And I imagine this chip loaning is only happening during locked or semi locked hands. If its happening regularly It has to be costing them.
Here's an example - let's say we are playing high card flush, or UTH with progressive sidebet, guy wants to bet my bonus (or progressive bet), and gives me money. I hit the royal/7-6 card SF. Now I have a huge tax liability - let's say the RF is for 100k and he wants to give me 35k, but my tax rate is above that so I want more. Also, I just had a huge win on my card now, so any comps I might be due from a loss have just been nuked. Also, my game just got slowed down by probably an hour for the tax forms etc. A lot of these aspects apply only to recreational players, however.
Quote: NorthJerseyGirlSometimes players are short. If you have a winning hand and don't have enough to triple, it's no big deal to borrow chips from another player. If you have a push or a wimner, we know we are getting our chips back. Most of us have loaned or borrowed chips. Once you win or push, you return the chips to the other player.
As of this week, Mt. Airy now prohibits this practice. I asked the dealer and they were unsure of why. Its not sharing a bank - it's loaning money.
So the solution is asking the other player to cash out some chips to get money.
He loans you the money, I cannot think how a casino can prohibit loaning of money.
You cash in the money for chips and make the bet.
And then the reverse to pay back the loan.
It is a ridiculous rule that they have put, especially if they are enforcing it 100%.
Imagine the position of husband and wife or very good friends loaning each other chips and the bad feeling for them if the casinos does not allow it.
I can understand the reason of putting the rule to prohibit Side betting, but enforcement of the rule could be at the discretion of the Pit when side betting is suspected.
I'm not 100 percent sure about the law on this. Some places have some law about banking players. I was detained in California after collection the bankroll after a play was over. They basically just told me it was illegal to bank players. I have no clue if that was true or not, they didn't push the issue or 86 me. So I just said, no problem.Quote: AceTwoSo the solution is asking the other player to cash out some chips to get money.
He loans you the money, I cannot think how a casino can prohibit loaning of money.
You cash in the money for chips and make the bet.
And then the reverse to pay back the loan.
It is a ridiculous rule that they have put, especially if they are enforcing it 100%.
Imagine the position of husband and wife or very good friends loaning each other chips and the bad feeling for them if the casinos does not allow it.
I can understand the reason of putting the rule to prohibit Side betting, but enforcement of the rule could be at the discretion of the Pit when side betting is suspected.
Quote: tongniIt can be really costly when it slows down the table by 10-20 when there's a dispute, even if it happens rarely. Also, chips flying around, slows down the game, etc. There's not really an upside, so the best solution for the casino is to have an official rule saying it's not allowed while looking the other way.
Here's an example - let's say we are playing high card flush, or UTH with progressive sidebet, guy wants to bet my bonus (or progressive bet), and gives me money. I hit the royal/7-6 card SF. Now I have a huge tax liability - let's say the RF is for 100k and he wants to give me 35k, but my tax rate is above that so I want more. Also, I just had a huge win on my card now, so any comps I might be due from a loss have just been nuked. Also, my game just got slowed down by probably an hour for the tax forms etc. A lot of these aspects apply only to recreational players, however.
The 100K is yours according to any casino. First off, most dealers will enforce the fact that if a wager goes onto your spot, YOU have to place it. Someone else can't bet on your spot. Which means it's your wager and any win is yours.
Personally if I was playing a game and some ploppy wanted to play my bonus and I hit a progressive or something, that would be enough money for me to stiff them.
Quote: AxelWolfI'm not 100 percent sure about the law on this. Some places have some law about banking players. I was detained in California after collection the bankroll after a play was over. They basically just told me it was illegal to bank players. I have no clue if that was true or not, they didn't push the issue or 86 me. So I just said, no problem.
If you don't even trust a player enough to have them carry the bankroll into the bathroom to hand it over to you, why are you working with them?
Trust had absolutely nothing to do with it(It was many years ago, probably my first out of NV play). It was a convenience thing, as we were in separate cars and going to separate places. The play was over and no one planned on ever returning there. There wasn't any indication there was a problem or anything. Had I known this was a thing there I would've just waited for a different day. You learn from your mistakes(hopefully) I have made many.Quote: sc15If you don't even trust a player enough to have them carry the bankroll into the bathroom to hand it over to you, why are you working with them?
