etr102
etr102
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August 20th, 2014 at 10:33:44 PM permalink
Sorry, not sure if this qualifies as a table game or a slot machine since there is no live dealer.

Caesars Windsor recently got rid of their Interblock Craps/Sic-Bo game and replaced it with a game called Big Three-Six Wheel. It's got the same annoying slow moving pace and lack of atmosphere that any other Interblock game has.

Was just curious if The Wizard or any of the rest of you knew much about this game? What's the vig? What strategies if any minimize the vig?

The game play is quite simple. Minimum bet is $3, but making three individual $1 bets is allowed. There are three large wheels, so you bet on where each of 3 large wheels will land. I think each wheel has roughly 36 spaces with 6 different symbols scattered throughout in varying frequencies. There's Cherrys, Bells, Bars, Double-Bars, Triple-Bars and Sevens. I don't have the exact frequency or payout for each symbol. Hopefully this information is available somewhere. Additionally, you can bet that all 3 wheels will land on the same symbol (ie 3 cherrys, 3 bells, etc) for a bigger payout.

Anyway, what words of wisdom can you all give me on this game? I'm guessing it's probably got a pretty big HE, but just curious about how high it is.
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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August 20th, 2014 at 10:42:18 PM permalink
Quote: etr102

Sorry, not sure if this qualifies as a table game or a slot machine since there is no live dealer.

Caesars Windsor recently got rid of their Interblock Craps/Sic-Bo game and replaced it with a game called Big Three-Six Wheel. It's got the same annoying slow moving pace and lack of atmosphere that any other Interblock game has.

Was just curious if The Wizard or any of the rest of you knew much about this game? What's the vig? What strategies if any minimize the vig?

The game play is quite simple. Minimum bet is $3, but making three individual $1 bets is allowed. There are three large wheels, so you bet on where each of 3 large wheels will land. I think each wheel has roughly 36 spaces with 6 different symbols scattered throughout in varying frequencies. There's Cherrys, Bells, Bars, Double-Bars, Triple-Bars and Sevens. I don't have the exact frequency or payout for each symbol. Hopefully this information is available somewhere. Additionally, you can bet that all 3 wheels will land on the same symbol (ie 3 cherrys, 3 bells, etc) for a bigger payout.

Anyway, what words of wisdom can you all give me on this game? I'm guessing it's probably got a pretty big HE, but just curious about how high it is.



SWAG'ing it, you're describing a 3 reel slot machine with 36 stops and no blanks, deconstructed and presented in a different layout. The HE would be pretty straightforward to calculate if you gathered the data (symbols in order on each wheel, and the payouts on each paid combination from the table). If it's displayed like a Big Six wheel, with all symbols fully visible, that seems very do-able.

Promotional video for the Big 3 Six Wheel
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
tringlomane
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August 20th, 2014 at 10:48:46 PM permalink
I guess the big question is, are the symbols weighted at all? I assume not, but since it's not "representative" of a "live gambling game", there is a possibility it could be. If unweighted, it could be figured out with the appropriate cell phone pics (of all the wheel possibilities and respective payouts). If weighted, best of luck figuring it out.
tringlomane
tringlomane
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August 20th, 2014 at 10:48:46 PM permalink
duplicate
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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August 21st, 2014 at 5:36:31 AM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Dieter
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Dieter
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August 21st, 2014 at 6:21:23 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

SWAG'ing it, you're describing a 3 reel slot machine with 36 stops and no blanks, deconstructed and presented in a different layout.



Payout structure is different. A slot machine, you place one bet, and any winning pattern yields... something.

Big 3 Six is 3 Big Six type wheels run at the same time. You can place individual bets on each wheel, plus a side bet for "trips" that pays if all three wheels land on the same symbol.

Spins are automatic, at regular intervals, if bets are placed or not.

G5 Wheel Generator page - they say 32 stops per wheel, 7.81% expected edge.

Edit: added edge from webpage, fix style error in game name.
May the cards fall in your favor.
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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August 21st, 2014 at 6:29:28 AM permalink
Quote: Dieter

Payout structure is different. A slot machine, you place one bet, and any winning pattern yields... something.

Big Three 6 is 3 Big Six type wheels run at the same time. You can place individual bets on each wheel, plus a side bet for "trips" that pays if all three wheels land on the same symbol.

Spins are automatic, at regular intervals, if bets are placed or not.

G5 Wheel Generator page - they say 32 stops per wheel.



I get that, but structuring the math would be very similar, just more elements, like on a machine that pays 1 or 2 cherries as well as 3 line wins, just reiterate the cherry element for each wheel and each symbol, whatever it pays. Some elements would have to be similar to calculating a roulette number, I suppose, since every symbol pays something if you bet it, each wheel independently.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Dieter
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Dieter
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August 21st, 2014 at 6:38:04 AM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

I guess the big question is, are the symbols weighted at all? I assume not, but since it's not "representative" of a "live gambling game", there is a possibility it could be. If unweighted, it could be figured out with the appropriate cell phone pics (of all the wheel possibilities and respective payouts). If weighted, best of luck figuring it out.



We have the stated edge from the manufacturer ("expected house edge 7.81%"), we may be able to infer the (lack of) weighting from the paytable / symbol frequency.

I looked at one for a whole 5 or 6 minutes; there are just enough mechanical elements in place to be annoying when trying to determine the wheel symbols.

Next time I'm bored, I'll see if I can get a picture or two and count the symbols on the wheels.
May the cards fall in your favor.
Dieter
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Dieter
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August 21st, 2014 at 6:50:28 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

I get that, but structuring the math would be very similar,



Took me a few minutes to see where you're going with that. Yes, the side bet is not unlike a 3 reel 1 line slot machine (with a paytable that didn't really pique my interest), but the core game is Big Six, with fewer stops and a different paytable.

I did find the history display to be somewhat novel - history of past spins is plainly visible to players. This might encourage some interesting action from voodoo players.
May the cards fall in your favor.
miplet
miplet
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August 21st, 2014 at 10:10:01 AM permalink
If the payouts in this picture are correct and there are 32 stops each equally likely to come up and each wheel is the same, I came up with the following:
SymbolPaysWaysPlayer EV
7301-0.03125
3 bar142-0.0625
2 bar93-0.0625
1 bar64-0.125
bell37-0.125
cherry115-0.0625

And for the 3 wheel side bet:
SymbolPaysWaysReturn
7100010.03051757813
3 bar50080.1220703125
2 bar100270.08239746094
1 bar25640.048828125
bell103430.104675293
cherry333750.3089904785
Mixed Bar56300.09613037109
Loser-128320-0.8642578125
Total32768-0.07064819336

Looks like 7.06% house edge. Might have a typo and/or braino somewhere, or they changed some payouts.
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