Banned from baccarat table?
Not every casino in Vegas offers the game though. And I think part of the reason is that you need tolerance for volatility, Asian players, and very large bet amounts if you are going to make it work. The growth in Baccarat revenue was not anticipated by everyone, but even now that the revenue is clearly there, not every casino wants to operate the game and/or change how they are currently doing things.
Quote: AhighI seriously doubt it. I think a place would be more likely to remove the entire game than a single or multiple players who are winning big. Whoever is winning big I would think should be given extra comps to ensure they come back to you and not take your money to another casino, not barred from play.
Not every casino in Vegas offers the game though. And I think part of the reason is that you need tolerance for volatility, Asian players, and very large bet amounts if you are going to make it work. The growth in Baccarat revenue was not anticipated by everyone, but even now that the revenue is clearly there, not every casino wants to operate the game and/or change how they are currently doing things.
The variance of baccarat is extremely low; one of the lowest of any games in the casino.
If a small casino cannot handle large bets then they need to set their betting limits appropriately, no different than at blackjack or craps. Some casinos have small-stakes baccarat games that get a lot of action (from different people than those who frequent the high-limit rooms, of course). While baccarat does tend to attract high rollers, it need not necessarily be a high-limit game, and, if it isn't, it is one of lowest variance games that the casino can offer.
Quote: CrakonOther than Phil Ivey... have you ever heard of anyone getting backed off for winning too much at baccarat?
Nope never seen this happen in terms of winning too much.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceThe variance of baccarat is extremely low.
I agree when you look at a computer simulation on a flat bet.
Players don't flat bet. With large spreads from min to max bet, the volatility of operating the game is there. Players love to employ systems of changing their bet amounts based on past events. This can lead up to an unusually large (anomalous) denomination bet that present exposure to a house with limits set too high and not enough players making those denomination bets.
Quote: AhighI agree when you look at a computer simulation on a flat bet.
Players don't flat bet. With large spreads from min to max bet, the volatility of operating the game is there. Players love to employ systems of changing their bet amounts based on past events. This can lead up to an unusually large (anomalous) denomination bet that present exposure to a house with limits set too high and not enough players making those denomination bets.
Betting less than max at any time has lower volatility than flat betting max every hand.
The point is that the casino needs to set their minimums and maximums accordingly. They should be able to handle a whole table max-betting the same way (and therefore winning and losing at the same time -- ie, they should be able to handle 6x max, every hand). If that is too much for them then their max bet is too high. It has nothing to do with the volatility of the game itself, which is quite low.
Quote: IbeatyouracesI have.
Casinos are not always run by the most intelligent people in the world. Most of them do not understand their games or why they make money. Most of the time this works to our advantage, but not always, and remembering this fact can be very helpful.
Quote: IbeatyouracesI have.
At the baccarat tables? Maybe other games but I haven't seen anyone being backed off at the bac tables. That would be interesting.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceie, they should be able to handle 6x max, every hand). If that is too much for them then their max bet is too high. It has nothing to do with the volatility of the game itself, which is quite low.
That 6x is a "mini" table. The normal table has I guess 12 or 14 seats. I've never seen it where the entire table was betting the max, only read about(stories...) it here and only in that Golden Nugget case (actual, but a mini table). It's fun to think about the possibility of everyone betting the "max" but it rarely happens as you well know.
To clarify, word is that each hand is, like roulette or dice, an independent gamble and event. Is this true?
Quote: IbeatyouracesI don't care what anyone says, casinos will barr players with a certain lifetime win whether they are AP's or not.
Because they think they are cheating and can't figure out how. What choice does that leave them?
Quote: NokTangThat 6x is a "mini" table. The normal table has I guess 12 or 14 seats. I've never seen it where the entire table was betting the max, only read about(stories...) it here and only in that Golden Nugget case (actual, but a mini table). It's fun to think about the possibility of everyone betting the "max" but it rarely happens as you well know.
To clarify, word is that each hand is, like roulette or dice, an independent gamble and event. Is this true?
I'm aware of "big table" baccarat but I've never actually seen it. Even in the MGM Grand (which seems to get a lot of Asian high-rollers) they have the mini tables with $10k maximums (which I'm pretty sure that they routinely give people permission to exceed, particularly at private tables)
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceI'm aware of "big table" baccarat but I've never actually seen it. Even in the MGM Grand (which seems to get a lot of Asian high-rollers) they have the mini tables with $10k maximums (which I'm pretty sure that they routinely give people permission to exceed, particularly at private tables)
They used to have big tables at Caesars Palace. Times have sure changed. I can't imagine an Asian or Brazilian high roller playing at a mini table. They want to handle the cards, rip them, fold them, wiggle them, it's a mess when they are done. My last visit to Nagaworld in Phnom Penh, the high limit private rooms were all big tables and some had just one player on same. What was I doing in them you ask/wonder? Just acting stupid and lost. The players were intrigued by my presence and one Malaysian player even invited me to sit with him. Talk about nervous "suits"........
Quote: NokTangThey used to have big tables at Caesars Palace. Times have sure changed. I can't imagine an Asian or Brazilian high roller playing at a mini table. They want to handle the cards, rip them, fold them, wiggle them, it's a mess when they are done. My last visit to Nagaworld in Phnom Penh, the high limit private rooms were all big tables and some had just one player on same. What was I doing in them you ask/wonder? Just acting stupid and lost. The players were intrigued by my presence and one Malaysian player even invited me to sit with him. Talk about nervous "suits"........
They are allowed to mangle/rip/destroy the cards.
In general at MGM, if the table minimum is $100 or higher, it is a "squeeze game". I have heard this called "midi" baccarat before. It's at a mini table, but you can violate the cards.
If it's lower (sometimes they spread $50 games in the high limit room) it's not. I have no doubt that your hourly loss is higher betting $50 per hand than $100 per hand -- the game probably goes 4x as fast when the dealer is the only one to handle the cards.
Quote: IbeatyouracesI don't care what anyone says, casinos will barr players with a certain lifetime win whether they are AP's or not.
In other words you haven't seen this personally at the baccarat tables. It's all cool.
LOL. No argument there.
Don't Even need to name casinos maybe just give us the context of the scenario. Any tidbits would be appreciated and helpful. Thank you
Quote: CrakonYou don't need to name names
Don't Even need to name casinos maybe just give us the context of the scenario. Any tidbits would be appreciated and helpful. Thank you
One such incident I'm aware of, and can verify, is the player in question was playing on credit. Once he started winning big they decided it was a good time to verify his credit(check). Much to the surprise of everyone, it was a worthless check, and he was paid and told to leave the property and not return.
I'd be interested to know if this 'Differential' system is used anywhere else?
Quote: ShineyShine
I'd be interested to know if this 'Differential' system is used anywhere else?
Only in home games, or underground games. Chemin de Fer ? however it's spelled works like this I think??
