Dealer charged with giving tips on how to win at roulette
July 10th, 2014 at 8:48:24 AM
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http://www.observer-reporter.com/article/20140709/NEWS01/140709541#.U72QXvldXTp
I would like to see how they can prove this.
Title should read "dealer charged" ( If a moderator could fix the spelling in the title, i would appreciate it)
I would like to see how they can prove this.
Title should read "dealer charged" ( If a moderator could fix the spelling in the title, i would appreciate it)
new motto for the left: “I don't know if I received bad information, but I think I suspected there was more than there actually was,” (John Brennan Mar 25, 2019)
July 10th, 2014 at 10:09:39 AM
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Lets start talking about dealer ball influence. This is just funny.
July 10th, 2014 at 10:49:16 AM
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Kind of early for April Fool's day, isn't it?
July 10th, 2014 at 12:01:19 PM
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A dealer doesn't want to stand at a dead table so he chats with players... the usual banter about what number do you want... Seven Red, okay... coming right up.... and then low and behold the next number just happens to be Seven Red... and the cops come out with handcuffs? Was he even looking at the wheel when he released?
Its like the poker player who asked for Quad Kings and got them. The dealer had to explain, if I could really do that, you wouldn't be sitting there, my friends and relatives would be sitting there.
Its like the poker player who asked for Quad Kings and got them. The dealer had to explain, if I could really do that, you wouldn't be sitting there, my friends and relatives would be sitting there.
July 10th, 2014 at 12:46:41 PM
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LMAO why do we have some weird cases in PA. Of all the casinos in the country these things keep happening around here. Maybe the police/AG are just that dumb.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed.
I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
July 10th, 2014 at 1:53:23 PM
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Who was he supposed to have defrauded/tricked by the table? I hope this case goes to trial just to possibly find out what they're thinking.
I am a robot.
July 10th, 2014 at 2:04:20 PM
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Preposteruous.
What's next? Jailing dealers who recommned placing odds because they're 0 edge? How about a casino employee who tells you this or that VP is +EV? OR wishing a player "good luck" right before they win a jackpot?
BTW I've yet to run across a dealer who won't give advice on how to play when asked, be it whether or not to hit on BJ or how to set a hand in PGP.
It's like the Italian scientists who were charged for failing to predict an earthquake.
What's next? Jailing dealers who recommned placing odds because they're 0 edge? How about a casino employee who tells you this or that VP is +EV? OR wishing a player "good luck" right before they win a jackpot?
BTW I've yet to run across a dealer who won't give advice on how to play when asked, be it whether or not to hit on BJ or how to set a hand in PGP.
It's like the Italian scientists who were charged for failing to predict an earthquake.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
July 10th, 2014 at 5:15:23 PM
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haha this story is gold. Favorite line:
"Valle also allegedly told the informant he used the same techniques to help other patrons win money at the casino, and that one man he helped won “a couple hundred dollars."
A COUPLE HUNDRED DOLLARS?!?!?!?!? HOW COULD WE EVER BE SO STUPID TO LET ONE PATRON GET AWAY WITH A COUPLE HUNDRED DOLLARS!
Also, how the oh so convincing evidence occurred between 10:15 and 10:54 AM on a single day. That's a pretty convincing sample size.
Stupidity at its finest. I hope this guy wins a countersuit for tens of thousands for slanderous claims against his character. Absolutely absurd.
"Valle also allegedly told the informant he used the same techniques to help other patrons win money at the casino, and that one man he helped won “a couple hundred dollars."
A COUPLE HUNDRED DOLLARS?!?!?!?!? HOW COULD WE EVER BE SO STUPID TO LET ONE PATRON GET AWAY WITH A COUPLE HUNDRED DOLLARS!
Also, how the oh so convincing evidence occurred between 10:15 and 10:54 AM on a single day. That's a pretty convincing sample size.
Stupidity at its finest. I hope this guy wins a countersuit for tens of thousands for slanderous claims against his character. Absolutely absurd.
July 11th, 2014 at 11:14:55 AM
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This is very embarrassing for the Meadows and the gaming authorities in PA.
Are they this clueless?
Are they this clueless?
July 11th, 2014 at 12:21:16 PM
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I laughed at that as well.Quote: duckmankilla
A COUPLE HUNDRED DOLLARS.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
July 11th, 2014 at 12:47:30 PM
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I demand that the casino customers who acted on the dealer's roulette tips be incarcerated. So they can't breed.Quote: kmumfLets start talking about dealer ball influence. This is just funny.
Suck dope, watch TV, make up stuff, be somebody on the internet.
July 11th, 2014 at 5:00:34 PM
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Quote: kmumfLets start talking about dealer ball influence. This is just funny.
Maybe he was not doing a proper spin on the ball, and more or less placing it into the number he indicated. Or he was calling the number that he had indicated regardless of where the ball actually landed.
It reminds me of a time years ago when I encountered a bj dealer (not in vegas btw) who had a way to peek at the next card to be dealt and then offer advice on how to play your hand in exchange for a tip. She pretended to "guess" what the next card would be sometimes too in an effort to clue the rest of us in to tipping her more. Back then, I was new to the game and didn't want to tip every hand (even for an advantage) and was more or less chased off by being treated poorly. Looking back, I could have either made a decent amount of money or got myself into some real trouble. I was probably lucky to be scared and stupid.
July 11th, 2014 at 9:54:24 PM
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Quote: kmumfLets start talking about dealer ball influence. This is just funny.
Actually, if you can grasp the math and physics behind it, then you can understand how it's quite possible to hit a target section, more frequently than expectation, on some wheel designs.
Steve Forte, casino risk consultant, has also provided some demonstrations on how it's done. There are also several people that have provided demonstrations on Youtube.
Unless you own your own wheel, and understand the mechanics behind it, then you'll find that it's really tough to grasp how it's even remotely possible.
Here's a quick overview on what's required for it to work:
1. High profile wheel or middle profile.
2. A short spin with the ball on the track for 10 seconds or less.
3. Slow rotor.
4. Off level wheel or a wheel with a dominant ball drop location.
The key to success is the wheel, not the dealer. In recent years, wheel manufacturers, such as TCS Huxley, have gone to the trouble of introducing ball drop zone sensors that monitor the ball drop location - in order to alert the casino when there's a problem. This is to help protect the casino from rogue dealers and visual ballistic players. Casinos check to see if the wheels are level for a good reason.
-Keyser
July 11th, 2014 at 10:16:20 PM
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Okay then, this above along with the prior suggestion of a dealer possibly calling the chosen number regardless, is starting to make some potential sense, whether it actually applies to this case or not. So, nevermind.
EDIT to add: And you're right, it isn't easy (at least for me) to picture how this could really work out so it could be scammed, but in reading your explanation of it I believe you.
EDIT to add: And you're right, it isn't easy (at least for me) to picture how this could really work out so it could be scammed, but in reading your explanation of it I believe you.
Suck dope, watch TV, make up stuff, be somebody on the internet.
July 11th, 2014 at 10:28:34 PM
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I doubt that he was calling a chosen number. I suspect that he was simply recommending a sector of the wheel that would be more likely to hit because of his influence. Again, it's the mechanics of the wheel that make it possible, not some kind of super human dealer skill.
What many people don't realize, is that back in the 1970s and 1980s, many casinos around the world were ready to throw in the towel on roulette. The visual ballistic players and rogues dealers were winning millions from them. George Melas, wheel engineer for TCS Huxley, is one of the people that chronicles the evolution of the wheel and talks about the problems back then. His website is rouletteresearch.com.
Such problems forced fundamental changes in wheel design, and were the reason for the for invention of the low profile wheel. Even to this day, they still have some problems. More recently they've developed rotors with a built in servo motor that changes the speed of the wheel, during the spin, to help counter the problem. Cammegh's RRS system is one example.
-Keyser
What many people don't realize, is that back in the 1970s and 1980s, many casinos around the world were ready to throw in the towel on roulette. The visual ballistic players and rogues dealers were winning millions from them. George Melas, wheel engineer for TCS Huxley, is one of the people that chronicles the evolution of the wheel and talks about the problems back then. His website is rouletteresearch.com.
Such problems forced fundamental changes in wheel design, and were the reason for the for invention of the low profile wheel. Even to this day, they still have some problems. More recently they've developed rotors with a built in servo motor that changes the speed of the wheel, during the spin, to help counter the problem. Cammegh's RRS system is one example.
-Keyser
July 11th, 2014 at 10:57:36 PM
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You are now making too much sense. Roulette gamblers would never go for that, better to use Madame Fatima's magic mojo number.Quote: Keysera sector of the wheel
Suck dope, watch TV, make up stuff, be somebody on the internet.
July 12th, 2014 at 4:19:55 AM
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Quote: sodawaterThis is very embarrassing for the Meadows and the gaming authorities in PA.
Are they this clueless?
a) Absolutely agree !
b) Apparently.
There's emptiness behind their eyes
There's dust in all their hearts
They just want to steal us all and take us all apart
July 12th, 2014 at 6:26:18 AM
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is it possible that there was some accidental wheel bias here that the dealer picked up on. Maybe it was off center or something?
or possibly he is like one of those weirdo DI people who think they are doing something. Maybe he thought he was able to get the ball into a certain area and it just so happened to work by chance a few times.
or maybe the casino is just crazy.
or possibly he is like one of those weirdo DI people who think they are doing something. Maybe he thought he was able to get the ball into a certain area and it just so happened to work by chance a few times.
or maybe the casino is just crazy.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed.
I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
July 29th, 2014 at 11:10:53 AM
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Based on the experiment by our very own Croupier, I'm not so sure that it's baloney. He very well may have had the ability to aim for a sector. He very well shouldn't have been talking about it with the patrons. At least in range of surveillance equipment.
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
July 29th, 2014 at 11:54:47 AM
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Is it just possible that the actual charges are based on supplying tips to players and not actually the dealers ability to spin any winning numbers?
I.E. is there a prohibition in Pennsylvania gaming law prohibiting dealers from giving advice to players period.
I noticed the article did not state that the dealer actually was able to land the ball in the number 4 or that the undercover was able to leave the table with any significant win.
The article stated the charges were "prohibited act by tricking or defrauding the table" and perhaps that is meant to protect players who might be tricked or defrauded by placing numbers on faulty advice.
I'm not saying that's the answer here but that makes more sense to me.
Lets say he convinced XYZ patrons that he could land the winning numbers. Now they place heavier bets on those numbers. When they don't come up the players are technically defrauded.
I.E. is there a prohibition in Pennsylvania gaming law prohibiting dealers from giving advice to players period.
I noticed the article did not state that the dealer actually was able to land the ball in the number 4 or that the undercover was able to leave the table with any significant win.
The article stated the charges were "prohibited act by tricking or defrauding the table" and perhaps that is meant to protect players who might be tricked or defrauded by placing numbers on faulty advice.
I'm not saying that's the answer here but that makes more sense to me.
Lets say he convinced XYZ patrons that he could land the winning numbers. Now they place heavier bets on those numbers. When they don't come up the players are technically defrauded.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
July 29th, 2014 at 12:13:29 PM
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Quote: darkozThe article stated the charges were "prohibited act by tricking or defrauding the table" and perhaps that is meant to protect players who might be tricked or defrauded by placing numbers on faulty advice.
Does that kind of regulation actually exist anywhere?
I run into awful advice all the time-- my favorite belongs to BJ Switch: "You want to split almost everything you get, because you want to get as many cards out on the table." (...What?)
July 29th, 2014 at 1:07:07 PM
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There is a difference between bad advice and making fraudulent claims that influence patrons.
It sounds like this dealer actually told patrons to make certain bets which he could then land on. He even cited past evidence of his skill. He was probably doing this quite often.
It sounds like this dealer actually told patrons to make certain bets which he could then land on. He even cited past evidence of his skill. He was probably doing this quite often.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
July 29th, 2014 at 1:47:52 PM
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I saw a couple at the GN buy in for $50
and ask the dealer what were his fave
bets. He grabbed $15 of their chips and
bet them, lost. Did it again, lost, the
whole time telling them what a great
strategy this was. He took their remaining
chips and lost them also. The couple were
shell shocked, they stumbled away from
the table speechless.
It was the rudest thing I ever saw a dealer
do and his comment was 'Oh well, it usually
works.'
and ask the dealer what were his fave
bets. He grabbed $15 of their chips and
bet them, lost. Did it again, lost, the
whole time telling them what a great
strategy this was. He took their remaining
chips and lost them also. The couple were
shell shocked, they stumbled away from
the table speechless.
It was the rudest thing I ever saw a dealer
do and his comment was 'Oh well, it usually
works.'
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
July 29th, 2014 at 2:34:17 PM
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Quote: EvenBobHe grabbed $15 of their chips and bet them, lost.
...
It was the rudest thing I ever saw a dealer do
That doesn't sound like rudeness so much as theft.
May the cards fall in your favor.
July 29th, 2014 at 2:58:50 PM
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Quote: DieterThat doesn't sound like rudeness so much as theft.
It was comical when it was happening.
The couples eyes were all lit up on the
first spin, really hopeful on the second,
and they tried to stop him a little on the
third with meager protests. It all happened
so fast, their 50 bucks was gone in less than
90 seconds.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
July 29th, 2014 at 3:06:37 PM
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Hmmm.... That does sound plausible. And I do believe the PA laws are strict enough that this would be a violation.Quote: darkozI.E. is there a prohibition in Pennsylvania gaming law prohibiting dealers from giving advice to players period.
...
The article stated the charges were "prohibited act by tricking or defrauding the table" and perhaps that is meant to protect players who might be tricked or defrauded by placing numbers on faulty advice.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
July 29th, 2014 at 4:28:25 PM
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Well, the state does have a somewhat checkered history even with simple operations like its lottery.Quote: GWAELMAO why do we have some weird cases in PA. Of all the casinos in the country these things keep happening around here. Maybe the police/AG are just that dumb.
July 29th, 2014 at 6:19:43 PM
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If I'm not mistaken, Colorado state law prohibits dealers from giving any advice at all, solicited or unsolicited, during the play of a hand.
Now in Roulette, it's common practice for a dealer to place bets at a player's instruction due to the size of the table, right? So as far as surveillance was concerned, that's all the dealer was doing? And I assume the pit boss was nowhere to be found? I'm trying to figure out how that dealer didn't get yanked right off that table.
Quote: EvenBobI saw a couple at the GN buy in for $50
and ask the dealer what were his fave
bets. He grabbed $15 of their chips and
bet them, lost. Did it again, lost, the
whole time telling them what a great
strategy this was. He took their remaining
chips and lost them also. The couple were
shell shocked, they stumbled away from
the table speechless.
It was the rudest thing I ever saw a dealer
do and his comment was 'Oh well, it usually
works.'
Now in Roulette, it's common practice for a dealer to place bets at a player's instruction due to the size of the table, right? So as far as surveillance was concerned, that's all the dealer was doing? And I assume the pit boss was nowhere to be found? I'm trying to figure out how that dealer didn't get yanked right off that table.
Casinos are not your friends, they want your money. But so does Disneyland.
And there is no chance in hell that you will go to Disneyland and come back with more money than you went with.
- AxelWolf and Mickeycrimm
August 1st, 2014 at 6:11:25 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearHmmm.... That does sound plausible. And I do believe the PA laws are strict enough that this would be a violation.
I've been trying unsuccessfully to find out if this was about giving tips to players (as opposed to actually helping them win). I haven't been able to find anything in Pennsylvania law although I did find something in Washington State law. I should have copied the link but didn't and can't find it now.
It's illegal for a dealer to give any advice in Washington State.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
August 1st, 2014 at 6:23:18 PM
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Quote: Deucekies
Now in Roulette, it's common practice for a dealer to place bets at a player's instruction due to the size of the table, right? So as far as surveillance was concerned, that's all the dealer was doing? And I assume the pit boss was nowhere to be found? I'm trying to figure out how that dealer didn't get yanked right off that table.
It was early afternoon, no players and the
pit was sleeping.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
