PGP Very Bad Push

Speaking if bad breaks...

I was at Belterra in Indiana getting a little reckless, at least for me, a person used to $5 tables. I need a win, so I take a chance on this hand:

Joker-A-K-Q-10-6-2

I could have played one of two ways - pair of Aces, KQ in the low hand, or used the Joker to fill in the straight and taken a push and assumed the dealer wasn't going to get a flush.

I played the pair and KQ in the low hand.

Dealer drew a full house - trips in high hand, pair in low hand, and crushed me. If I had taken the straight, I would have gotten a push.

I'm not sure if that was the best play, but I was pretty much going for it and counting on the dealer having an OK-to-bad hand.

This isn't a bad play; KQ/AAxxx is a slightly winning hand overall, and you can try for the win at the risk of a strong hand defeat. The straight with the 62 on top really can only push.

deleted

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

I had a hand similar to that years ago in Windsor except there was only one way to play it. I had a high straight, no joker, with a 5 high on the low hand. I was pretty much expecting the push barring that rare monster when low and behold the dealer had a smaller straight with 4 high in the low hand and I actually won. Quite a rare feat I would think.

Yes indeed! Those types of "out-of-the-blue" surprise wins are have much more juice. Not at all mundane.

Quote: Paigowdan

This isn't a bad play; KQ/AAxxx is a slightly winning hand overall, and you can try for the win at the risk of a strong hand defeat. The straight with the 62 on top really can only push.

I was torn between playing for a push and playing for a win. I kind of looked at it like the choice between kicking an extra point and going to overtime or going for two. I went for it because I was Martingaling and has lost two hands in a row. I felt as if I had to win one.

I had kings, jacks and aces and proclaimed out loud at least I wont lose this hand. You got it dealer full house with aces up top. Lost the copy and his three fours beat my kings and jacks. I had $25 out and still had to take a walk.

Quote: hook3670

I had kings, jacks and aces and proclaimed out loud at least I wont lose this hand. You got it dealer full house with aces up top. Lost the copy and his three fours beat my kings and jacks. I had $25 out and still had to take a walk.

that's why you bank every hand you can.

Quote: hook3670

I had kings, jacks and aces and proclaimed out loud at least I wont lose this hand. You got it dealer full house with aces up top. Lost the copy and his three fours beat my kings and jacks. I had $25 out and still had to take a walk.

Three of my favorite hands were at The Golden Nugget (LV)... Three times, if I put full house in the back, leftovers up front, I would have won. Instead, I pushed all three.

And the best one was at San Manuel... I'm getting frustrated and pushed in the remainder of my bankroll (probably about 80 left of 500)... High full house, pair of tens up top. Feeling pretty good here. I lose to a straight flush with a pair of aces.

Quote: hwccdealer

Speaking if bad breaks...

I was at Belterra in Indiana getting a little reckless, at least for me, a person used to $5 tables. I need a win, so I take a chance on this hand:

Joker-A-K-Q-10-6-2

I could have played one of two ways - pair of Aces, KQ in the low hand, or used the Joker to fill in the straight and taken a push and assumed the dealer wasn't going to get a flush.

I played the pair and KQ in the low hand.

Dealer drew a full house - trips in high hand, pair in low hand, and crushed me. If I had taken the straight, I would have gotten a push.

I'm not sure if that was the best play, but I was pretty much going for it and counting on the dealer having an OK-to-bad hand.

With that hand, Ballys AC would play it just the way you did as their house way. When I mention that in other casinos most dealers are surprised to hear it.

Quote: bw

With that hand, Ballys AC would play it just the way you did as their house way. When I mention that in other casinos most dealers are surprised to hear it.

I'm not sure I understand. Bally's AC would play the KQ as the low hand but other Pai Gow dealers think that doesn't make sense and would put the 6-2 in the low hand?

Quote: hwccdealer

I'm not sure I understand. Bally's AC would play the KQ as the low hand but other Pai Gow dealers think that doesn't make sense and would put the 6-2 in the low hand?

Correct. The KQ as low hand is house way at Ballys AC, but not in any of the other casinos I have played Pai Gow Poker in. When the dealer gets that hand and sets it as a straight with two low cards on top usually most players push, where setting it as KQ and pair of aces in the back usually beats more than half the players.

Quote: hwccdealer

Joker-A-K-Q-10-6-2

I could have played one of two ways - pair of Aces, KQ in the low hand, or used the Joker to fill in the straight and taken a push and assumed the dealer wasn't going to get a flush.

I played the pair and KQ in the low hand.

For future reference, you made the better play by far. As an example, let's say the cards were Joker-Ah-Kd-Qd-Tc-6c-2c:

Playing the Straight with Six-Two was worth -0.023674
Playing the Ace-Joker pair with King-Queen was worth +0.254090

So while it didn't work out this time, the play you made was the better one. Generally speaking, if you have a Straight/Flush with a Joker-Ace pair (and no other pairs), you should break the Straight/Flush and play Ace-Joker in the high hand if:

1) the low hand with the Straight/Flush is 9-high or lower, but can be improved to Queen-Ten or better by playing the pair
2) the low hand with the Straight/Flush is 10-high, but can be improved to Queen-Jack or better by playing the pair
3) the low hand with the Straight/Flush is Jack-high, but can be improved to King-Jack or better by playing the pair
4) the low hand with the Straight/Flush is Queen-Two to Queen-Ten, but can be improved to King-Queen by playing the pair

Quote: JB

For future reference, you made the better play by far. As an example, let's say the cards were Joker-Ah-Kd-Qd-Tc-6c-2c:

Playing the Straight with Six-Two was worth -0.023674
Playing the Ace-Joker pair with King-Queen was worth +0.254090

So while it didn't work out this time, the play you made was the better one. Generally speaking, if you have a Straight/Flush with a Joker-Ace pair (and no other pairs), you should break the Straight/Flush and play Ace-Joker in the high hand if:

1) the low hand with the Straight/Flush is 9-high or lower, but can be improved to Queen-Ten or better by playing the pair
2) the low hand with the Straight/Flush is 10-high, but can be improved to Queen-Jack or better by playing the pair
3) the low hand with the Straight/Flush is Jack-high, but can be improved to King-Jack or better by playing the pair
4) the low hand with the Straight/Flush is Queen-Two to Queen-Ten, but can be improved to King-Queen by playing the pair

It sounds like learning to deal Pai Gow is a lot of rules and exceptions. It is one of two games in my casino I do not deal; I've taken a liking to it from playing at Belterra (we have regular Pai Gow at my place; Belterra has EZ Pai Gow, where you push if the dealer has a Q high Pai Gow. Learned that one the hard way.)

Quote: hook3670

I had kings, jacks and aces and proclaimed out loud at least I wont lose this hand. You got it dealer full house with aces up top. Lost the copy and his three fours beat my kings and jacks. I had $25 out and still had to take a walk.

I had something like that this weekend. Pair of aces up top and strong two pair on the bottom.... Dealer drew four of a kind plus a pair of aces. I just shook my head.