Roulette: Cheater, Lucky or Us?
Quote: Mission146You do realize that you have made it publicly known, multiple times, that you are a professional advantage player. I might suggest this has something to do with him not PMing the location of his event.
I don't go to these for that purpose. And that's the truth. Remember, I dealt poker and blackjack for a charity poker room.
Quote: Mission146You're right, I'd forgotten that, my apologies.
No biggie. I have no ulterior motives, I promise. O:-)
Quote: RivaAxiom...Again I stated that I "thought" it could be state law. Perhaps it was and maybe it still is. All I know is that "our" house policy is a $500 cap. Now, with that said, do you honestly think that the rental guy would send out his soldier (the magician) with the understanding that the most he could scam us out of was $500? Chump change!
And, 20 guys working as a team each to scam a measly $500 from Riva's tent--and still have to split the juice with the wizard? What do you think this is, Oceans 11? NOT!
$500 each. That is the key. Probably more like $1000 or $1500 per day per person, since I'm sure that they could manage to do this at least twice by cashing out multiple times.
Quote:All this boils down to is the wheel rental guy stuffing us with a gaffed wheel, sending in his soldier (the magician) to perform his "magic", cash out and split before we (me) can come out of the ether (hour #1 of a 4-day weekend).
Sure, keep telling yourself that and ignoring the fact that it's completely impossible within the amount of time that it happened.
This is like talking to a brick wall. It's pretty clear that your dealer friend was involved in some way. Either he is a crook or a moron; either way, he pushed the guy $5k of chips in 15 minutes which is more than it would be mathematically possible to win in that time. The smart money is on "crook" but I guess it's also possible that he can't do simple arithmetic either.
I'm done with this. You don't seem interested in getting help or in listening to reasons or mathematical proof; only in repeating your impossible theories over and over again. You should go hang out on the baccarat or betting system forums; you will find a lot of kindred spirits there.
Quote: AxiomOfChoice$500 each. That is the key. Probably more like $1000 or $1500 per day per person, since I'm sure that they could manage to do this at least twice by cashing out multiple times.
Sure, keep telling yourself that and ignoring the fact that it's completely impossible within the amount of time that it happened.
This is like talking to a brick wall. It's pretty clear that your dealer friend was involved in some way. Either he is a crook or a moron; either way, he pushed the guy $5k of chips in 15 minutes which is more than it would be mathematically possible to win in that time. The smart money is on "crook" but I guess it's also possible that he can't do simple arithmetic either.
I'm done with this. You don't seem interested in getting help or in listening to reasons or mathematical proof; only in repeating your impossible theories over and over again. You should go hang out on the baccarat or betting system forums; you will find a lot of kindred spirits there.
]
Consensus bet...the dealer was "taken"... GIMME a break.... 7:00 PM on the 1st night of a 4-day summer-evening event, where the volunteer perhaps had better things to do with his/her time, and the first player up to the table is a 6'4" goofy-looking idiot, dressed in skinny pants, a under-sized leather vest, no shirt, and a checkered Frank Sinatra hat.
Read my lips.. we pay in 5's and 10's. NO WAY does the jackass walk in with a wheelbarrow of fake chips. EVERY chip he got he purchased from our cage at buy in or, was pushed to him from the table. PLEASE..swallow that pill. I was there!
Quote: RivaRead my lips.. we pay in 5's and 10's. NO WAY does the jackass walk in with a wheelbarrow of fake chips. EVERY chip he got he purchased from our cage at buy in or, was pushed to him from the table. PLEASE..swallow that pill. I was there!
Yes, it was pushed to him by a dealer who was either in on the scam or couldn't do simple arithmetic. Either way, he was overpaying the guy big-time.
Quote: GWAERiva, talking to you is like talking to varmenti. You came here asking for advice and when people give you their opinion you get angry about it. Do you have a bet on how views this thread gets?
GWAE...please look up any/all my other posts on this forum/website. 100% of these are asking the "experts" hereabouts to help me either (1) improve our charity organization's take--always within the regulations set forth in out State's charitable gaming laws, (2) help us make our tables/games more efficient/less vulnerable and (3) help us to stunt those that want that simply want to f*** us.
If I seem stubborn and/or difficulty, it's not on account that I do not appreciate the information/input. As always...thanks.
Quote: GWAERiva, talking to you is like talking to varmenti. You came here asking for advice and when people give you their opinion you get angry about it. Do you have a bet on how views this thread gets?
Oh my..Varmenti is a person! I thought varmenti was Italian slang for something. My apologies to Varmenti. :)
Quote: RivaGWAE...please look up any/all my other posts on this forum/website. 100% of these are asking the "experts" hereabouts to help me either (1) improve our charity organization's take--always within the regulations set forth in out State's charitable gaming laws, (2) help us make our tables/games more efficient/less vulnerable and (3) help us to stunt those that want that simply want to f*** us.
Yes, you ask for help, then ignore it and insist that your initial theory was right all along, even after it has been proven wrong.
Not so fast, I may have been talking about stubbornness or standing your ground, that can be good thing. Lets not assume I'm a evil sexist.Quote: beachbumbabsSo, if this guy is the only bettor, and he knows the number to be paid, and is only playing the number and splits for 5, (from about 10 pages ago), that was worth 125+60+60+60+60=365. Nobody else betting or slowing things down, no change to be made, no chip reset because they stay on the layout (and it's only 5 chips), the guy wins on the number 14 times and he's got 5K+ in chips. Why is it so hard to believe in that kind of "express roulette" scenario this could happen in 20 minutes or less? Riva has said the bank was 2000, so that's 2 chip fills with runners simply bringing them over (they have people circulating on the floor with more chips like cigarette girls; for house chips, they could simply hand them over); not like an elaborate casino procedure through the cage.
I'm isolating the events down to bare bones, with no betting additional numbers for camoflage or anything. Pay the bets (after the first calculation, it's the same amount each time) which ride, so no time lost, ask "no more bets?", grab the ball and throw it, takes maybe 30 seconds at most to land in the number again. It goes fast and mechanical with the guy playing head to head, surely not more than 1 minute per cycle.
Other than chip fills, the whole thing takes 45 seconds a hand. And nobody's quite able, as amateurs, to take the initiative to stop the action, slow things waaaay down after the 2nd or 3rd win, call a supervisor, or KNOW that something has to be wrong enough to give them the confidence to confront a tall, weird-looking guy playing alone. The bulk of this happened while everything else was starting up, it only would have been the last few spins where anyone would have come to look (maybe when the 2nd bucket was needed?), and maybe a couple of spins more once attention was paid to get that there was a problem.
To me, the really weird thing is the scammers not knowing about the 500 max pay. But, if it was a scam rental place she hadn't worked with before, and they rent their stuff out to whoever in the area, maybe it's a portable deal they work wherever the gaffed wheel/balls are placed. They send the guy in blind assuming there's no payout cap, (personally I've never heard of a payout cap) and he's just focused on a quick hit and get out before they realize they've been hit, not looking at wall signs. YOU (as the magician) know you're running a scam, so you're hyped and focused, and you know you have to move fast; you're not looking around, you think you know what's going on here, but it turns out you don't. So maybe the guy figures, by the time he's trying to get paid, he just has to act like an honest outraged patron and let the police get involved, because what are they going to prove against him at that point? They're probably still pulling this scam somewhere when they rent the roulette, since she hasn't been able to prove enough to take action against them.
Putting that all together, I can see this happening exactly as Riva first described it, and in the time frame she described, with nobody really paying attention to the situation during a mass table opening time. Perhaps the one thing the magician did, as he picked up his buckets and left the table, was to switch out the magnetized ball for an inert one.
And Axel, I'm calling you out on your "woman" comment. That was rude. :P
speaking of stubbornness or standing your ground:
What do you tell a woman with 2 black eyes? *Warning very funny but offensive answer*
I really have nothing against women as long as they know their place......... They clean well. ;)
Seriously, I don't have a problem with girls and have great respect for them, I know some women who are very smart and do a great job everything they do. I have a feeling you are one of them. I really don't know is Riva is or was female, but people are to sensitive about all of this. People should not over react or explode to such comments. This would only start to prove any sexists and his views that they had some merit. I have seem many times when they try to come up with examples when comparing men with women and they only sink their own ship.
I just don't understand whats going on here with this story, something is not right about it, people may be wasting their time with a ever changing story and "facts?".
Riva said the dealer was a GOOD DEALER. So he/she nned to make up his/hers mind.Quote: BeardgoatYeah 14 winners in a row. I know its obvious. There was a crowd of bystanders watching because they couldn't believe thia guys streak. Volunteers running to tell Riva about this guys streak.
It was a rigged wheel. We've established the scammer wasnt very smart. He didnt know about the 500 cash out rule. And riva alluded to the fact that the volunteer croupier was just a volunteer. He didnt care. Seems like Riva was also suggesting the volunteers werent the brightest of the bunch. If the croupier is not in on the scam and he is spinning the ball himslef he was probably thinking holy shit what a streak this guy is on
With that text message why didn't you take it to the police? If you feel so strongly someone cheated you, why have you not asked that the person selling you the equipment be investigated?
We have a good magician and a elaborate cheating scam going on, the guy took the time to look corny, he knew when this place opened, he knew everything including what numbers to bet. He bought in right next to the $500 max cash out sign(but missed it). He did an IMPOSSIBLE Made a big stink about the chips.
He somehow knew a dealer would keep pushing him chips for repeating numbers, 5k worth.
keep thinking this was the real reason he was there. Your take during this event was probably significantly less then it should have been and you have no clue.
Quote: AxelWolfRiva said the dealer was a GOOD DEALER. So he/she nned to make up his/hers mind.
The dealer is a good dealer when it suits Riva's story and the dealer is inexperienced and would not notice someone hitting fourteen numbers in a row when it suits Riva's story.
You would have to be in a coma to not notice when someone picks 14 correct numbers in a row, but let's ignore that. This is a good dealer who didn't notice!
I think we are being trolled. The story changes every time Riva tells it.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceThe dealer is a good dealer when it suits Riva's story and the dealer is inexperienced and would not notice someone hitting fourteen numbers in a row when it suits Riva's story.
You would have to be in a coma to not notice when someone picks 14 correct numbers in a row, but let's ignore that. This is a good dealer who didn't notice!
I think we are being trolled. The story changes every time Riva tells it.
don't forget that this is a dealer that is a volunteer who is not well trained. However, they are able to quickly run the game without errors and yet they still wouldn't think anything of someone hitting 14 numbers in a row.
possibly Its started out as a good DRASTICALLY OVER embellished innocent STORY, since we have some very intelligent, logical members, they started to see holes in the story, Riva was pressed on some of the facts. He/she Panicked, he/she needed to add more embellishments, but its hard to add things, to prove the impossible and remain true to the original story. Things spun out of control but he/she is sticking to the original story.Quote: AxiomOfChoiceThe dealer is a good dealer when it suits Riva's story and the dealer is inexperienced and would not notice someone hitting fourteen numbers in a row when it suits Riva's story.
You would have to be in a coma to not notice when someone picks 14 correct numbers in a row, but let's ignore that. This is a good dealer who didn't notice!
I think we are being trolled. The story changes every time Riva tells it.
I don't know, I just know from what i have read none of this seems plausible.
Who usually says “If it doesn't make sense, it's usually not true.”
Quote: AxelWolfpossibly Its started out as a good DRASTICALLY OVER embellished innocent STORY, since we have some very intelligent, logical members, they started to see holes in the story, Riva was pressed on some of the facts. He/she Panicked, he/she needed to add more embellishments, but its hard to add things, to prove the impossible and remain true to the original story. Things spun out of control but he/she is sticking to the original story.Quote: AxiomOfChoiceThe dealer is a good dealer when it suits Riva's story and the dealer is inexperienced and would not notice someone hitting fourteen numbers in a row when it suits Riva's story.
You would have to be in a coma to not notice when someone picks 14 correct numbers in a row, but let's ignore that. This is a good dealer who didn't notice!
I think we are being trolled. The story changes every time Riva tells it.
I don't know, I just know from what i have read none of this seems plausible.
Who usually says “If it doesn't make sense, it's usually not true.”
It absolutely makes the entire operation look bad true or not.
I just spent some time and read through this mess and have a few questions for you.
1. If this guy took you for 5k you say they had to fill the racks 2x. Wouldn't it have had to be more times then that unless you were paying him in $1 chips on 200 plus wins?
2. If one is true then how was the cage/cashier/whoever is in charge of dispensing chips not aware of something extraordinary happening after the first fill?
3 Did you witness the cashier count the chips that were brought to the cage and ensure that it was not the cashier adding extra stacks to his piles? My thoughts are that if this guy really did empty your racks how ever many times; most of the chips could have been $1 and look like much more than it actually was. It would be very easy for the cashier to swap stacks of tens for stacks of ones from the bank.
I agree with many others on here that it seems very unlikely that he was able to do this alone in less than 30 minutes even winning every spin due to the time constraints.
Quote: SlackJawYokelRiva,
I just spent some time and read through this mess and have a few questions for you.
1. If this guy took you for 5k you say they had to fill the racks 2x. Wouldn't it have had to be more times then that unless you were paying him in $1 chips on 200 plus wins?
2. If one is true then how was the cage/cashier/whoever is in charge of dispensing chips not aware of something extraordinary happening after the first fill?
3 Did you witness the cashier count the chips that were brought to the cage and ensure that it was not the cashier adding extra stacks to his piles? My thoughts are that if this guy really did empty your racks how ever many times; most of the chips could have been $1 and look like much more than it actually was. It would be very easy for the cashier to swap stacks of tens for stacks of ones from the bank.
I agree with many others on here that it seems very unlikely that he was able to do this alone in less than 30 minutes even winning every spin due to the time constraints.
Perhaps we should just put this thing to bed as some of you are now shooting at the messenger (whatever gender the messenger may happen to be).
Here's what I know...
1. a goofy looking goof walks in to the tent right at the opening bell. we get a lot of creepy looking people at our events but, this individual was really creepy.
2. he buys chips and walks over immediately to play roulette. I'm 20' away setting up craps. I am paying no attention to roulette as I have people screaming to play craps.
3. The guy plays for a while and soon (?) a colleague comes over in a panic exclaiming that the guy is in to the roulette game for 5 grand. I do nothing because I know that he could continue to play and lose it back to us or, we have the $500 cap and he won't cant get out with anything more (unless he had an accomplice).
4. The guy stops play after a while (?) (again it was 3 years ago), walks over to the cashier's table with a bucket (literally)of chips and that's when the fight began.
the rest is history
It's quite possible they had 2 fills. I assume they did because my pal stated that they guy was in to us for 5 grand and the table is set up with 2 grand. And yes, they would have taken chip from the other side.
Every penny that goes out to a table is recorded by the bank. at the end of the night, we know exactly how every table did. And no, the bank was not in on the caper.
The tent manager had the job of talking with the irate player but the cops were standing right by his side. He stood his ground and told the guy that he could have $500 plus his start up and that was it. He grabbed his loot and stormed out out of the tent. We had a great night on the craps table!
Finally, if you look at EVERY other thread and post I have entered in to this forum, you will see that everything I do is about helping to make our gambling event safer, more efficient and/or more profitable. I have absolutely no reason to embellish a story.
Thanks you,
Mr. & Mrs. Riva :)
This is the most unethical thing I have heard concerning gambling operators in a long time. If this is how these events are ran they need to be investigated and shut down. You had no clue this guy was cheating at that point (nor do you now, dealer could have just been drunk, he he spoofed the sellers phone, sent the text to cover his ass), or why would you let him continue. So that can't be an excuse.Quote: Riva
3. The guy plays for a while and soon (?) a colleague comes over in a panic exclaiming that the guy is in to the roulette game for 5 grand. I do nothing because I know that he could continue to play and lose it back to us or, we have the $500 cap and he won't cant get out with anything more (unless he had an accomplice).
You are taking free shots at people. It's like making a bet with someone (with your fingers crossed, IE the dumb sign) and saying. if he wins the bet. I wont pay, and if he losses I will collect. That's a blatant cheating move if I ever seen one.
If this is how the events are ran, no wonder people have no problem cheating them. If he was cheating he probably did it just to teach you guys a lesson for cheating others your self, signs or no signs it's a blatant move. Its one thing having a precautionary sign in the unlikely event of a big winner. But, it seems you use it as a tool to screw people, as you already told us happens.
Please don't use its a charity event excuse, because you are already practically cheating people with the horrible odds. Also you are playing to people addictive weaknesses to extract more money they can probably afford, some people cant stop. I hope some of that charity money goes to GA. I'm sure your events have contributed to creating or relapsing an addiction.
With stories like this no wonder people are Leary of organised charities.
Quote: Riva
3. I do nothing because I know that he could continue to play and lose it back to us or, we have the $500 cap and he won't cant get out with anything more.
Until you realize how incredibly wrong this mindset is, you should not be involved in gambling in any way.
Someone needs to find a way to cover their ass, and come up with a story for not paying attention (or gambling) and letting a player legitimately win 5k. Or to possibly protect a dealer/friend who messed up big time and over payed or just let someone over bet(probably the house GAMBLES and lets this happen all the time, then uses the $500 max cash in cap to cover their ass) Justification is needed to explain why or how this operation could condone this and let him win that much without a possible lawsuit, meanwhile just watch and let this happen. Especially since the watching was in hopes the player would lose 5k back.
I think someone knew this guy was betting big, someone watching got greedy, thinking he would lose bad. The player got lucky, so they let him continue. A Cheating explanation is the the only justification that could be used.
Judge, I am legally blind or Judge, I never went to school and I can not read.
I bought chips and went to play roulette. I played for hours and hours and no one ever mentioned to me when I won big that I couldn't keep the money.
IMO signs are not enough. I would think there should be a signed form when you buy chips that you agree that you can only win $500.
Quote: AxelWolfThis is the most unethical thing I have heard concerning gambling operators in a long time. If this is how these events are ran they need to be investigated and shut down. You had no clue this guy was cheating at that point (nor do you now, dealer could have just been drunk, he he spoofed the sellers phone, sent the text to cover his ass), or why would you let him continue. So that can't be an excuse.
You are taking free shots at people. It's like making a bet with someone (with your fingers crossed, IE the dumb sign) and saying. if he wins the bet. I wont pay, and if he losses I will collect. That's a blatant cheating move if I ever seen one.
If this is how the events are ran, no wonder people have no problem cheating them. If he was cheating he probably did it just to teach you guys a lesson for cheating others your self, signs or no signs it's a blatant move. Its one thing having a precautionary sign in the unlikely event of a big winner. But, it seems you use it as a tool to screw people, as you already told us happens.
Please don't use its a charity event excuse, because you are already practically cheating people with the horrible odds. Also you are playing to people addictive weaknesses to extract more money they can probably afford, some people cant stop. I hope some of that charity money goes to GA. I'm sure your events have contributed to creating or relapsing an addiction.
AxelWolf,
You are certainly entitle to your opinion as I am mine. That said, your calendar is way off whack. We had a goofy looking person win big amounts in a very short period of time. It raises suspicions but at the time, I did not accuse the guy of cheating. When my pal came over screaming about the event, he did not say the guy had "cheated" us out of 5 grand. No, he merely said the fellow had "won" 5 grand. If you read through this thread, cheating NEVER entered in to the picture surrounding this incident until 6 months later when I was mistakenly copied on an email/text that I clearly was not supposed to read. I am merely trying to back-fill these event so it cannot happen again. Sheesh!
As far as the $500 cap signs, it serves two purposes: (1) it protects the house from huge loss however, I've stated before players ABSOLUTELY know how to get around it. (2) It encourages players to bet moderately. The average schmo who comes in to our events buys in with two 20's and buys a $3 beer and looks for a game. There is no place within 500 miles that will allow a player to sit and drink all night long and play $1 blackjack. They are fully aware of the $500 cap and they are fully aware that the payouts on some bets are reduced. What you are not aware of is that we are not a casino. Rather, we are an entertainment venue that uses gambling as one of its acts. We could never operating on say a 2% house edge like a real casino. We are open for 8 hours and if there is a bad run, we do not have the luxury of time to recover. That said, we have a zillion bets that pay the exact same as a casino. It is the high-payout bets that are shaved.
And, unlike other millionaire parties events, where winnings are converted in to a cupie-doll prize at the end of the night, a person at our event can walk home with a lot of money. And many do--even more than the $500 cap allows. So, stop pontificating. We're not a casino!
Finally, and respectfully, many people do not attend events like ours based on the rules. That's OK. They can go to a casino where the minimum drop is $25 per-chip. We provide entertainment and EVERYBODY knows the rules.
This guy was obviously not, you said that yourself.Quote: Rivacheating NEVER entered in to the picture surrounding this incident until 6 months later
They are fully aware of the $500 cap and they
Its way worst then I thought.
Not even thinking this guy was cheating, you tried to cheat him? You watched him like a hawk hoping he would lose all his money knowing he could never cash out any thing over $500?
You read a text message 6 MONTHS LATER????????? and now your an expert? How could you not think someone was cheating who made 5k in 15 min betting single red chips?
Perhaps you don't understand how UNETHICAL that is. seriously how you don't see that is beyond me. Post number 3 as a poll and ask if it is
1 UNETHICAL
2 You are CHEATING him
3 its ok because its charity
4 the worst thing I have ever seen from a legitimate charity
5 God will forgive you, but the devil wants your number
6 how do I avoid this place at all costs
7 Sounds fine since I have never gambled a day in my life and know nothing about fair
8 this guy deserves it since he wanted to give to charity
9 what do you expect from an outfit like this
10 I want to cheat this place to
what you are doing is extremely unethical when it comes to gambling.
theres no justification. theres no excuse. its just plain wrong.
Quote: AxelWolfI'm starting to get the real picture here. I have a feeling if there is any truth to this story, this is whats going on.
Someone needs to find a way to cover their ass, and come up with a story for not paying attention (or gambling) and letting a player legitimately win 5k. Or to possibly protect a dealer/friend who messed up big time and over payed or just let someone over bet(probably the house GAMBLES and lets this happen all the time, then uses the $500 max cash in cap to cover their ass) Justification is needed to explain why or how this operation could condone this and let him win that much without a possible lawsuit, meanwhile just watch and let this happen. Especially since the watching was in hopes the player would lose 5k back.
I think someone knew this guy was betting big, someone watching got greedy, thinking he would lose bad. The player got lucky, so they let him continue. A Cheating explanation is the the only justification that could be used.
Everything you say could have happened. Perhaps the dealer goofed up. I know for certain he did not cheat. We have BJ dealers PAY on 25's! Players say nothing. Sometimes on craps, we fail to take down one-time bets. Players say nothing except when they hit!
Again, I thought that at the time, this was just a volatile conflict, but cheating was hardly on on the radar screen. It was the email/text that set off the alarms--and that was 6 month after the incident.
Quote: AxelWolfThis guy was obviously not, you said that yourself.
Its way worst then I thought.
Not even thinking this guy was cheating, you tried to cheat him? You watched him like a hawk hoping he would lose all his money knowing he could never cash out any thing over $500?
You read a text message 6 MONTHS LATER????????? and now your an expert? How could you not think someone was cheating who made 5k in 15 min betting single red chips?
Perhaps you don't understand how UNETHICAL that is. seriously how you don't see that is beyond me. Post number 3 as a poll and ask if it is
1 UNETHICAL YES
2 You are CHEATING him Absolutely
3 its ok because its charity that's just stupid
4 the worst thing I have ever seen from a legitimate charity yep!
5 God will forgive you, but the devil wants your number I doubt God will
6 how do I avoid this place at all costs Where is it I want to warn people
7 Sounds fine since I have never gambled a day in my life and know nothing about fair this would have to be true if you don't get it
8 this guy deserves it since he wanted to give to charity Bad choice
9 what do you expect from an outfit like this nothing less, now
10 I want to cheat this place to line up♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Quote: AxelWolfThis guy was obviously not, you said that yourself.
Its way worst then I thought.
Not even thinking this guy was cheating, you tried to cheat him? You watched him like a hawk hoping he would lose all his money knowing he could never cash out any thing over $500?
You read a text message 6 MONTHS LATER????????? and now your an expert? How could you not think someone was cheating who made 5k in 15 min betting single red chips?
Perhaps you don't understand how UNETHICAL that is. seriously how you don't see that is beyond me. Post number 3 as a poll and ask if it is
1 UNETHICAL
2 You are CHEATING him
3 its ok because its charity
4 the worst thing I have ever seen from a legitimate charity
5 God will forgive you, but the devil wants your number
6 how do I avoid this place at all costs
7 Sounds fine since I have never gambled a day in my life and know nothing about fair
8 this guy deserves it since he wanted to give to charity
9 what do you expect from an outfit like this
10 I want to cheat this place to
AxelWolf....I forgive you.
Quote: AxelWolfQuote: AxelWolfThis guy was obviously not, you said that yourself.
Its way worst then I thought.
Not even thinking this guy was cheating, you tried to cheat him? You watched him like a hawk hoping he would lose all his money knowing he could never cash out any thing over $500?
You read a text message 6 MONTHS LATER????????? and now your an expert? How could you not think someone was cheating who made 5k in 15 min betting single red chips?
Perhaps you don't understand how UNETHICAL that is. seriously how you don't see that is beyond me. Post number 3 as a poll and ask if it is
1 UNETHICAL . .YES
2 You are CHEATING him. . Absolutely
3 its ok because its charity . . that's just stupid
4 the worst thing I have ever seen from a legitimate charity. .yep!
5 God will forgive you, but the devil wants your number. .I doubt God will
6 how do I avoid this place at all costs. . Where is it I want to warn people
7 Sounds fine since I have never gambled a day in my life and know nothing about fair. .this would have to be true if you don't get it
8 this guy deserves it since he wanted to give to charity. .Bad choice
9 what do you expect from an outfit like this. .nothing less, now
10 I want to cheat this place to. . line up♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
Quote: RivaI know for certain he did not cheat.
The only thing that you know for certain is that the guy looked goofy.
Until you are able to look at every aspect of the day you will not be able to figure this out.
