Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
• Posts: 21222
September 20th, 2013 at 8:55:40 AM permalink
This game was first mentioned in the G2E Preview thread, but I think is deserving of its own thread.

Here is a preview of my page on Commission Free Pai Gow Poker.

You can see that Shufflemaster's mathematician differ on the house edge of the Tiger 9 bet. We're still trying to determine if this was due to using a different house way and/or if one of us is in error. So, consider this as just a sneak preview for now and subject to change.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
miplet
Joined: Dec 1, 2009
• Posts: 1931
September 20th, 2013 at 9:09:24 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

This game was first mentioned in the G2E Preview thread, but I think is deserving of its own thread.

Here is a preview of my page on Commission Free Pai Gow Poker.

You can see that Shufflemaster's mathematician differ on the house edge of the Tiger 9 bet. We're still trying to determine if this was due to using a different house way and/or if one of us is in error. So, consider this as just a sneak preview for now and subject to change.

The Four Queens house way should have more 9 highs in the low hand due to this in their 2 pair rule: Any two pair 6's or under - never split.
“Man Babes” #AxelFabulous
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
• Posts: 21222
September 20th, 2013 at 9:35:28 AM permalink
Quote: miplet

The Four Queens house way should have more 9 highs in the low hand due to this in their 2 pair rule: Any two pair 6's or under - never split.

True. The Trump Plaza house way would split up a low two pair if the highest singleton were a nine. So far, no individual mathematician has tested both ways. I probably would today but I've got too much going on with G2E coming up.

I show the probability of that situation, not excluding for straights and flushes, is 0.15%, which is about how much we're off.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
jml24
Joined: Feb 28, 2011
• Posts: 284
September 20th, 2013 at 10:08:46 AM permalink
It's interesting that Golden Nugget is running this game after pulling out EZ Pai Gow. This version seems to have two disadvantages vs. EZ Pai Gow:

- The push hand occurs considerably more often. This means more opportunities for player confusion. This could be offset by the fact that the push will be in the player's favor more often than with EZPG. The knock against EZPG is that it almost always turns a player win into a push when the queen high pai gow comes up. It's kind of like getting slowrolled for a player new to the game.

- The push hand (and tiger bet payout) depends on the house way which could be open to misunderstanding/dispute by players. It could lead to accusations that the dealer is cheating by setting the hand with a 9 in the low if players are not completely familiar with the house way.

I'm just curious why GN management is going for this if they deemed EZPG a failure. As a player I think I would prefer EZPG although I have not played this competitor. I enjoyed EZPG when the GN had it but have not seen it or this version at any other casino I frequent.
Buzzard
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
• Posts: 6814
September 20th, 2013 at 10:23:31 AM permalink
" I'm just curious why GN management is going for this " I'm not. Management decisions are usually not performance based.
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
• Posts: 5692
September 20th, 2013 at 11:42:05 AM permalink
Quote: jml24

It's interesting that Golden Nugget is running this game after pulling out EZ Pai Gow. This version seems to have two disadvantages vs. EZ Pai Gow:

- The push hand occurs considerably more often. This means more opportunities for player confusion. This could be offset by the fact that the push will be in the player's favor more often than with EZPG. The knock against EZPG is that it almost always turns a player win into a push when the queen high pai gow comes up. It's kind of like getting slowrolled for a player new to the game.

That is also its blessing - as there are much fewer non-qualifiers, as the few non-qualifier that do occur are effective, and don't need to be mixed with "additional useless pushes"
The 9-high low hand mechanism of this game new actually gets most of its effectiveness by back-dooring in EZ Pai Gow's Dealer Pai Gow hands [ahem..], while the straights and flushes with 9-high tops are simply added in and present as "redundant pushes" within this mechanism.

Quote: jml24

- The push hand (and tiger bet payout) depends on the house way which could be open to misunderstanding/dispute by players. It could lead to accusations that the dealer is cheating by setting the hand with a 9 in the low if players are not completely familiar with the house way.

I'm just curious why GN management is going for this if they deemed EZPG a failure. As a player I think I would prefer EZPG although I have not played this competitor. I enjoyed EZPG when the GN had it but have not seen it or this version at any other casino I frequent.

It was really about politics and perception local to the place, as it can be with many local casinos.
You have places that are "on your side," places that are not, and some places that apply little or no spin.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010