The Match 31 demo has officially been launched
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August 21st, 2013 at 1:14:27 AM
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Ladies and Gents I am proud to announce that the Match 31 demo has officially been launched on the Money$uit 31 website.
Match 31 is a new game based on the underlying game of Money$uit 31, yet played in a different more volatile and exciting fashion. As some of you may recall this game originally had a soft launch at last year’s G2E with DEQ.
Match 31 is a two hole card game with two community cards and a jackpot/Money$uit card that are used to form two separate 3 card Money$uit 31 hands. Players are dealt two cards and have the ability to use one of two community cards to form a 3 card Money$uit 31 hand and then if the Bonus wager had been placed have the ability to create a second bonus Money$uit 31 hand using both hole cards with the Money$uit card.
Match 31 is an incredibly volatile game that has payouts up to 150 to 1 on the base game and up to 250 to 1 on the bonus wager. The base game has been calculated to produce a 2.38% House Edge, a 1.34% Element of Risk and a 34% Hit Rate and the bonus wager has been calculated to have a 2.75% House edge and a 24% hit rate.
The most appealing aspect of the game aside from the very high payouts is that players essentially have three chances to achieve a winning hand without having to place several additional wager aside from the standard ante, play and bonus wagers…
Give the demo a try and let me know what you all think. As always I would love to hear what everyone has to say!
Additionally, the original version of Money$uit 31 is in the final preparation stages to Launch at the Grey Eagle casino in Calgary Alberta Canada and should be up and running within the next month or so… I will keep everyone informed with those details so those in the area can come out and give the original Money$uit 31 a shot in live play!
I look forward to everyone’s feedback!
Match 31 is a new game based on the underlying game of Money$uit 31, yet played in a different more volatile and exciting fashion. As some of you may recall this game originally had a soft launch at last year’s G2E with DEQ.
Match 31 is a two hole card game with two community cards and a jackpot/Money$uit card that are used to form two separate 3 card Money$uit 31 hands. Players are dealt two cards and have the ability to use one of two community cards to form a 3 card Money$uit 31 hand and then if the Bonus wager had been placed have the ability to create a second bonus Money$uit 31 hand using both hole cards with the Money$uit card.
Match 31 is an incredibly volatile game that has payouts up to 150 to 1 on the base game and up to 250 to 1 on the bonus wager. The base game has been calculated to produce a 2.38% House Edge, a 1.34% Element of Risk and a 34% Hit Rate and the bonus wager has been calculated to have a 2.75% House edge and a 24% hit rate.
The most appealing aspect of the game aside from the very high payouts is that players essentially have three chances to achieve a winning hand without having to place several additional wager aside from the standard ante, play and bonus wagers…
Give the demo a try and let me know what you all think. As always I would love to hear what everyone has to say!
Additionally, the original version of Money$uit 31 is in the final preparation stages to Launch at the Grey Eagle casino in Calgary Alberta Canada and should be up and running within the next month or so… I will keep everyone informed with those details so those in the area can come out and give the original Money$uit 31 a shot in live play!
I look forward to everyone’s feedback!
.
August 21st, 2013 at 5:09:12 AM
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Congrats on the Money$uit 31 install.
Match 31 is interesting. It seems sort of brain dead though, sort of like playing casino war. Not much thought into whether I play or fold.
I would recommend one change. One of the reasons I believe Texas Hold 'em became so popular was the ability to fold your hand, but still watch the hand play out to 'see if you made the right decision'. Of course, the pros correctly say you make your right decision at the time of the fold, and what happens after that is not relevant, but for most of us, it is still fun to see what would have happened.
In Match 31, if I fold, I do not get to see the top 2 cards, so I don't get any reinforcement if I made the right or wrong decision. It leaves an empty feeling every time I fold a hand. You should always show the community cards, even when the player folds.
Match 31 is interesting. It seems sort of brain dead though, sort of like playing casino war. Not much thought into whether I play or fold.
I would recommend one change. One of the reasons I believe Texas Hold 'em became so popular was the ability to fold your hand, but still watch the hand play out to 'see if you made the right decision'. Of course, the pros correctly say you make your right decision at the time of the fold, and what happens after that is not relevant, but for most of us, it is still fun to see what would have happened.
In Match 31, if I fold, I do not get to see the top 2 cards, so I don't get any reinforcement if I made the right or wrong decision. It leaves an empty feeling every time I fold a hand. You should always show the community cards, even when the player folds.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
August 21st, 2013 at 10:00:32 AM
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Quote: RaleighCrapsCongrats on the Money$uit 31 install.
Match 31 is interesting. It seems sort of brain dead though, sort of like playing casino war. Not much thought into whether I play or fold.
I would recommend one change. One of the reasons I believe Texas Hold 'em became so popular was the ability to fold your hand, but still watch the hand play out to 'see if you made the right decision'. Of course, the pros correctly say you make your right decision at the time of the fold, and what happens after that is not relevant, but for most of us, it is still fun to see what would have happened.
In Match 31, if I fold, I do not get to see the top 2 cards, so I don't get any reinforcement if I made the right or wrong decision. It leaves an empty feeling every time I fold a hand. You should always show the community cards, even when the player folds.
I, too, wanted very much to see the community cards. I think the game helps teach best strategy by displaying them, and it's a come-on as well that might result in more plays rather than folds.
It was a bit dull compared to Money 31. I wanted a flush pay in the Moneysuit even if the cards didn't add up to 17, but I understand you've run the numbers with the present pays.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
August 21st, 2013 at 10:09:13 AM
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Must resist the temptation to verify the house edge and basic strategy. Nope don't think I'll be able to. Must sleep soon. Will do tomorrow.
“Man Babes” #AxelFabulous
August 21st, 2013 at 10:25:13 AM
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Quote: mipletMust resist the temptation to verify the house edge and basic strategy. Nope don't think I'll be able to. Must sleep soon. Will do tomorrow.
miplet, you have just been found guilty in my superior kangaroo court of careless and wanton use of comedic material. The result of your humor has been a ruined keyboard, as milk spewed from my mouth upon reading your post.
The game is sort of boring, although I did manage to hit a As Js with the Ks as the money$uit card with $25 Ante and $25 money$uit bet. That was exciting for over $3,000 win.
It will be curious to see what the best strategy is to play this game. I have been playing any 2 TEN value cards, or any 2 same suit cards that total 13 or more, but I am pretty sure this is not the best play.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
August 21st, 2013 at 11:08:49 AM
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Miplet I am curious to see what you find...
Raleigh, I am having the developer change the demo to resolve the hands entirely...
I'm curious to know why you think the game is boring? Is it just to lack of any real major decisions as the original version? I personally think te game is very exciting given the ability for any given hand to turn into a very large winner at any time, granted I am slightly biased in that respect being the developer ;).
When I am able to get back to my computer I will post an image of a nice hand one of the fans of the game managed to hit very early on... Double trips, not to shabby...
Otherwise I look forward to what others have to say, as always everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinions... Never forget, three card poker was a failure multiple times before it turned into the most successful game in history.
Raleigh, I am having the developer change the demo to resolve the hands entirely...
I'm curious to know why you think the game is boring? Is it just to lack of any real major decisions as the original version? I personally think te game is very exciting given the ability for any given hand to turn into a very large winner at any time, granted I am slightly biased in that respect being the developer ;).
When I am able to get back to my computer I will post an image of a nice hand one of the fans of the game managed to hit very early on... Double trips, not to shabby...
Otherwise I look forward to what others have to say, as always everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinions... Never forget, three card poker was a failure multiple times before it turned into the most successful game in history.
.
August 21st, 2013 at 11:59:53 AM
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I'm not sure if this demo is meant for people who already know how the game works-- because if it isn't, I just ran through the initial 5000 using blacks and, despite having read the initial post and the info on the demo page, have no idea how this actually works. I feel like I'm missing something fundamental to this game here.
Looking at the layout... I'm not playing against anybody; the cards that appear up top are the community cards, and the M$ card is the one in the middle. If that's the case, I've got a K4, M$ is Q and the community cards are K3. If it's my two hole cards + one community card, I've got a... 17 or 24? And the two hole cards plus the M$ is KQ4. Why did that lose on everything?
Edit: So two hands into trying again, and I land an M$ 31, then a Mini Royal. Still not sure what I'm doing, but I evidently win big...?
Looking at the layout... I'm not playing against anybody; the cards that appear up top are the community cards, and the M$ card is the one in the middle. If that's the case, I've got a K4, M$ is Q and the community cards are K3. If it's my two hole cards + one community card, I've got a... 17 or 24? And the two hole cards plus the M$ is KQ4. Why did that lose on everything?
Edit: So two hands into trying again, and I land an M$ 31, then a Mini Royal. Still not sure what I'm doing, but I evidently win big...?
August 21st, 2013 at 12:09:05 PM
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It's doing 2 things simultaneously. 1. Your two cards are being combined with one of the two community cards by suit only for the best possible hand, regardless of whether it's in the money suit or not. The program pushes forward and highlights the community card which is best for your hand. Often it's not in a suit you have, so it doesn't help. Pay table to the left indicates those payouts. Suits are everything; cards must match in suit to add to your total. 2. As a second chance pot, which pays whether you fold or play, your two cards plus the Moneycard in the center are compared to the paytable on the right. In both hands, a total of 17 or above pays, and if that total is in the Moneysuit, it pays better than a 17 or above in the other 3 suits.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
August 21st, 2013 at 12:18:45 PM
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I was playing for awhile and i got this hand 9h As board cards are Kh Qs and money suit 6h, should i have gotten paid for the moneysuit 19 at 3-1 or the 21 in spades at 1-1. I got paid 1-1 for the 21.
August 21st, 2013 at 12:23:11 PM
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So you basically have (two cards)+(one of two cards) to make a suited 17+, plus a (two cards)+(M$ card in the middle) to make a suited 17+.
August 21st, 2013 at 12:23:47 PM
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Quote: kracker21I was playing for awhile and i got this hand 9h As board cards are Kh Qs and money suit 6h, should i have gotten paid for the moneysuit 19 at 3-1 or the 21 in spades at 1-1. I got paid 1-1 for the 21.
You should have received the 3 to 1 payout on the base game, it must be a coding glitch that just calculated the highest total instead of the highest pay... I will let the developer know that this issue exists...
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August 21st, 2013 at 12:27:26 PM
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Quote: VenthusI'm not sure if this demo is meant for people who already know how the game works-- because if it isn't, I just ran through the initial 5000 using blacks and, despite having read the initial post and the info on the demo page, have no idea how this actually works. I feel like I'm missing something fundamental to this game here.
Looking at the layout... I'm not playing against anybody; the cards that appear up top are the community cards, and the M$ card is the one in the middle. If that's the case, I've got a K4, M$ is Q and the community cards are K3. If it's my two hole cards + one community card, I've got a... 17 or 24? And the two hole cards plus the M$ is KQ4. Why did that lose on everything?
Edit: So two hands into trying again, and I land an M$ 31, then a Mini Royal. Still not sure what I'm doing, but I evidently win big...?
Beachbumbabs explanation is correct... The object of the game is to combine suited cards point slurs only... As she said the base game is such tht the players two hole cards get combined with a single one p the community cards at the top of the screen, while te suit on the money$uit card represents the money$uit for the base game... Then if the bonus wager is placed, te players two hole cards are combined with the money$uit card to create a second money$uit hand,..
Let me know if this clarifies everything...
And yes as you can see this game allows for the potential to get luky and win very big over the course of only a few hands...
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August 21st, 2013 at 1:15:14 PM
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Quote: mrsuit31
I'm curious to know why you think the game is boring? Is it just to lack of any real major decisions as the original version? I personally think te game is very exciting given the ability for any given hand to turn into a very large winner at any time, granted I am slightly biased in that respect being the developer ;).
When I am able to get back to my computer I will post an image of a nice hand one of the fans of the game managed to hit very early on... Double trips, not to shabby...
Otherwise I look forward to what others have to say, as always everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinions... Never forget, three card poker was a failure multiple times before it turned into the most successful game in history.
I think the game is better suited for casino play vs the original, with a continous shuffler, obv. I feel like there was too much going on with the orig. version. Definitely high variance like every new game out there. However, your game has quicker resolutions than most of the others so i think it could find a niche versus the other high variance games.
Quote: RaleighCrapsmiplet, you have just been found guilty in my superior kangaroo court of careless and wanton use of comedic material. The result of your humor has been a ruined keyboard, as milk spewed from my mouth upon reading your post.
The game is sort of boring, although I did manage to hit a As Js with the Ks as the money$uit card with $25 Ante and $25 money$uit bet. That was exciting for over $3,000 win.
It will be curious to see what the best strategy is to play this game. I have been playing any 2 TEN value cards, or any 2 same suit cards that total 13 or more, but I am pretty sure this is not the best play.
It's not. The site lists basic strategy below the game (you have to scroll). However, I'm not sure if it's entirely correct. Unless I am missing something (quite possible), any pair is playable, any hand with a starting value of 9 or higher is playable (92o or 54s is playable for example). 86o and 87o are playable. 76o (listed as playable) is NOT playable. I'll show this below since the math is the easiest.
Unsuited 76:
Note: Impossible to make 19 or better, so no increased moneysuit payouts and all wins of ante and play are even money.
Ante and Play results:
6 total cards available to improve out of 50 remaining:
(with 7): T, J, Q, K, A...(with 6): Ace
Result: win 2 antes
Probability to NOT improve to 17 or better:
(44/50)*(43/49) = 0.7722449
Probability to improve to 17 or 18:
1 - (44/50)*(43/49) = 0.2277551
Result: lose 2 antes
Expectation in antes:
0.2277551*2 - 0.7722449*2 = -1.08897959
Expectation of folding in antes: -1
Folding is superior than playing 76 offsuit.
August 21st, 2013 at 3:03:08 PM
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Maybe I found it boring because I am playing too few hands.
And I would guess playing the Ante and the MS$ at the same amount is probably not quite right either.
Maybe I should change boring to mindless. However, I do agree it could be a game that gets some play. I did quit at $6,925 so I won the first 20 minutes I played it. If I could repeat that result I would play the game even if I didn't like it. LOL
If the math is correct, I do like the HE as stated. It is low enough not to be a sucker game.
I think I would like the game more if there were another decision point. Perhaps an option to drop one of my cards and buy another card?
And I would guess playing the Ante and the MS$ at the same amount is probably not quite right either.
Maybe I should change boring to mindless. However, I do agree it could be a game that gets some play. I did quit at $6,925 so I won the first 20 minutes I played it. If I could repeat that result I would play the game even if I didn't like it. LOL
If the math is correct, I do like the HE as stated. It is low enough not to be a sucker game.
I think I would like the game more if there were another decision point. Perhaps an option to drop one of my cards and buy another card?
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
August 21st, 2013 at 3:05:56 PM
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Okay, so impressions now that I know what I'm doing:
It's kind of... uninteresting, to me. It reminds me of 3 Card Poker, in the sense that there isn't much in terms of decision and that you tend to slowly bleed as you hope for a big win. Having said that-- I've seen a lot of crowds around 3CP, which bores me bits, so it might do well with certain audiences.
It's kind of... uninteresting, to me. It reminds me of 3 Card Poker, in the sense that there isn't much in terms of decision and that you tend to slowly bleed as you hope for a big win. Having said that-- I've seen a lot of crowds around 3CP, which bores me bits, so it might do well with certain audiences.
August 21st, 2013 at 4:17:07 PM
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I think one of the issues with game evaluation by Forum Members is that it is easy to forget that the majority of members that are regular posters here are far more advanced in their thinking and play than the target casino patron. It is easy for us to think a game is mindless and doesn't have enough decision points. But as was mentioned, the majority of us are uninspired by 3CP and it is a game that has been around for a long time getting lots of play. Every developer out there would love their game to be as mindless and boring (and as successful!) as 3CP.
I like the second chance money suit opportunity, winning the primary hand is not necessarily an indication of what could happen on the MS 2nd chance hand. You may lose on the main bet with a 7/6 spades for your down cards and get no help with the community cards but wake up with the Ace of Spades as the MS card. It is nice to still be able to win the side bet with a hand that lost the main bet. And you still have opportunity to win both, like a Pair Plus type wager. Best of both worlds here, lose main but win side bet or win both.
I also think the game will play better on a live floor than M$31, although the trial will tell us a lot about the original game.
I would like a hit rate closer to 40% on the main game, but the HE and EOR are pretty good particularly for a game that doesn't require that much thinking.
Side bet hit rate and HE are right in the sweet spot although I would like to see the math (Mips?) to decide how top or bottom heavy the pay table is. When you reduce too much of the HE from high pay outs on infrequent events, an HE of 2.75% can feel like 12.75% to the player on 2999 out of 3000 hands.
Brent, time to get this one placed as well, I think it will do better than the original.....but I have told you that before :-)
I like the second chance money suit opportunity, winning the primary hand is not necessarily an indication of what could happen on the MS 2nd chance hand. You may lose on the main bet with a 7/6 spades for your down cards and get no help with the community cards but wake up with the Ace of Spades as the MS card. It is nice to still be able to win the side bet with a hand that lost the main bet. And you still have opportunity to win both, like a Pair Plus type wager. Best of both worlds here, lose main but win side bet or win both.
I also think the game will play better on a live floor than M$31, although the trial will tell us a lot about the original game.
I would like a hit rate closer to 40% on the main game, but the HE and EOR are pretty good particularly for a game that doesn't require that much thinking.
Side bet hit rate and HE are right in the sweet spot although I would like to see the math (Mips?) to decide how top or bottom heavy the pay table is. When you reduce too much of the HE from high pay outs on infrequent events, an HE of 2.75% can feel like 12.75% to the player on 2999 out of 3000 hands.
Brent, time to get this one placed as well, I think it will do better than the original.....but I have told you that before :-)
August 21st, 2013 at 4:51:23 PM
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Tring, that basic tratagy had caried over from the last demo of the Stud version which is no longer active... That being said it still serves as a general basis for beginners playing the game until a basic/optimal strategy has been configured... I appreciate the time you had spend experimenting with the game...
In regards to the "mindless"/"uninteresting" comments... I myself also like the original version because of the important decision making that is incorporated into the game. However, many directors as well as other executives had emphasized that many players prefer this type of, in your words "mindless", games that they can just sit down at and try to get lucky.,. That being said I still dont see this game as uninteresting as I still personally feel the game is very exciting as the players sit and watch the hands resolve with the possibility of very large payouts... How many other games have to potential to allow for a 3-1 payout on merely two suited cards totaling 19 points?
However, as I always say I do appreciate the feedback that you have provided and the time you have taken to experiment with the demo.., I will keep you all informed with any trials picked up now that the game has been launched...
In regards to the "mindless"/"uninteresting" comments... I myself also like the original version because of the important decision making that is incorporated into the game. However, many directors as well as other executives had emphasized that many players prefer this type of, in your words "mindless", games that they can just sit down at and try to get lucky.,. That being said I still dont see this game as uninteresting as I still personally feel the game is very exciting as the players sit and watch the hands resolve with the possibility of very large payouts... How many other games have to potential to allow for a 3-1 payout on merely two suited cards totaling 19 points?
However, as I always say I do appreciate the feedback that you have provided and the time you have taken to experiment with the demo.., I will keep you all informed with any trials picked up now that the game has been launched...
.
August 21st, 2013 at 5:53:38 PM
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Quote: ParadigmI think one of the issues with game evaluation by Forum Members is that it is easy to forget that the majority of members that are regular posters here are far more advanced in their thinking and play than the target casino patron. It is easy for us to think a game is mindless and doesn't have enough decision points. But as was mentioned, the majority of us are uninspired by 3CP and it is a game that has been around for a long time getting lots of play. Every developer out there would love their game to be as mindless and boring (and as successful!) as 3CP.
I like the second chance money suit opportunity, winning the primary hand is not necessarily an indication of what could happen on the MS 2nd chance hand. You may lose on the main bet with a 7/6 spades for your down cards and get no help with the community cards but wake up with the Ace of Spades as the MS card. It is nice to still be able to win the side bet with a hand that lost the main bet. And you still have opportunity to win both, like a Pair Plus type wager. Best of both worlds here, lose main but win side bet or win both.
I also think the game will play better on a live floor than M$31, although the trial will tell us a lot about the original game.
I would like a hit rate closer to 40% on the main game, but the HE and EOR are pretty good particularly for a game that doesn't require that much thinking.
Side bet hit rate and HE are right in the sweet spot although I would like to see the math (Mips?) to decide how top or bottom heavy the pay table is. When you reduce too much of the HE from high pay outs on infrequent events, an HE of 2.75% can feel like 12.75% to the player on 2999 out of 3000 hands.
Brent, time to get this one placed as well, I think it will do better than the original.....but I have told you that before :-)
You've been preaching that from the beginning Mike! I do also think that this game may fair very well in the US market... Its fast, fun, volatile and exciting... I feel the combo of the base game and the bonus wager fit very well together and when players have a no brainer of course they really want to see that nice Money$uit card!
I know one of the fans of the game did that early on as i had said in an earlier post... How would you like to hit this hand, although he was only playing a single dollar on each wager :(. He was dealt a pair of jacks and a jack was dealt in one of the community cards and the fourth Jack was the Money$uit card... very nice hand... As you can see at the bottom of the how to play page, the game can also be equipped with a five card progressive/bonus wager where the players two hole cards, the two community cards and the Money$uit card get combined to create a five card Money$uit hand. a sample paytable has not been fully explored yet but obviously the top pay would be the Money$uit Royal and work its way down to a suited 40 or so (the 40 is just a non educated estimation).
I do agree with you Mike in that this version of the game has serious commercial potential...
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August 21st, 2013 at 6:41:44 PM
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I've been playing on and off all day. Here are my initial observations:
1. I like MS31 a lot, and I like this more.
2. As others have said, showing the communal cards on a fold would be helpful. It's also required in a number of jurisdictions, might as well make the demo work that way, too.
3. With the MS card where it is, my mind keeps trying to make 5 card hands. Some physical separation of that card from the community cards may help with comprehension.
1. I like MS31 a lot, and I like this more.
2. As others have said, showing the communal cards on a fold would be helpful. It's also required in a number of jurisdictions, might as well make the demo work that way, too.
3. With the MS card where it is, my mind keeps trying to make 5 card hands. Some physical separation of that card from the community cards may help with comprehension.
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
August 21st, 2013 at 8:02:27 PM
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Quote: rdw4potusI've been playing on and off all day. Here are my initial observations:
1. I like MS31 a lot, and I like this more.
2. As others have said, showing the communal cards on a fold would be helpful. It's also required in a number of jurisdictions, might as well make the demo work that way, too.
3. With the MS card where it is, my mind keeps trying to make 5 card hands. Some physical separation of that card from the community cards may help with comprehension.
Thank you for the kind words RDW!
As for your comments
1. Thank you!
2. When the game is operated in a live setting the communal cards are always exposed in the same manner when players play or fold. The demo was just designed this way at first... However by the end of the night the demo will be changed to operate in this manner so you can always see how the hand would have played out, play or fold... (additionally the payout issue that was adressed in an earlier post will be fixed as well)
3. On the live layout the M$ card will actually be placed horizontally in respect to the community cards... Again this is just how the demo had been put together... I didn't see this as an issue for the demo, and had liked how it had appeared. I feel that after a few hands players will just get used to visualizing it in this setting. Although, again the live layout will have a horizontal M$ card...
Let me know if you happen to hit any big hands! I had attempted to post a screenshot of the double trips hand i had described in an earlier post, however my efforts were unsuccessful unfortunately...
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August 21st, 2013 at 8:25:15 PM
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I agree with Paradigm's assessment, that I am probably being too critical, and am not the target audience. I love real NL Texas Hold 'em , but will not play the UTH or 3CP or 4CP games. And some of those players will probably like this game too.
It's looking like you may have a good shot at a hit. It does play easily and quickly.
It's looking like you may have a good shot at a hit. It does play easily and quickly.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
August 21st, 2013 at 8:26:05 PM
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Think I congratulated you once before, but not sure, so WELL DONE SIR !
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
August 21st, 2013 at 8:29:25 PM
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Quote: RaleighCrapsI agree with Paradigm's assessment, that I am probably being too critical, and am not the target audience. I love real NL Texas Hold 'em , but will not play the UTH or 3CP or 4CP games. And some of those players will probably like this game too.
It's looking like you may have a good shot at a hit. It does play easily and quickly.
Thank you Raleigh.
I am a 1-2 and occasional 2-5 (when I'm winning) player myself, but be honest I'm also a high hand gunner...
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August 21st, 2013 at 8:29:45 PM
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Quote: BuzzardThink I congratulated you once before, but not sure, so WELL DONE SIR !
Thanks Buzz!
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August 21st, 2013 at 8:36:25 PM
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The Demo has been fixed with the changes in operation so that after a fold the community are exposed as normal... when you are on the demo all you need to do is refresh the page in order to download the changes...
Thanks for the feedback.
I hope you enjoy!
Thanks for the feedback.
I hope you enjoy!
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August 22nd, 2013 at 8:54:38 AM
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The game plays much better now that the community cards are showing.
hmmm, I may have to rethink my opinion of this game. Yesterday I was up $1925 after 20 minutes, and now today I am up $5975 after another 20 minutes.
hmmm, I may have to rethink my opinion of this game. Yesterday I was up $1925 after 20 minutes, and now today I am up $5975 after another 20 minutes.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
August 22nd, 2013 at 9:11:47 AM
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Nice hit! Too bad it's not for real money. :(
This game is swingy though. I got down 70 units quickly when first playing the game, before stumbling on the strategy (but I was playing near optimal to begin with, score!) This is probably the swingiest card games with one decision point that I can think of. But for the average patron, I think that's a good thing. More people seem to want high variance.
This game is swingy though. I got down 70 units quickly when first playing the game, before stumbling on the strategy (but I was playing near optimal to begin with, score!) This is probably the swingiest card games with one decision point that I can think of. But for the average patron, I think that's a good thing. More people seem to want high variance.
August 22nd, 2013 at 9:17:19 AM
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Quote: RaleighCrapsThe game plays much better now that the community cards are showing.
hmmm, I may have to rethink my opinion of this game. Yesterday I was up $1925 after 20 minutes, and now today I am up $5975 after another 20 minutes.
Nice Hand! To bad the queen of hearts isn't the jack or ten of spades...
Its not quite what you hit but this is a nice one also...
Keep up the good work!
.
August 23rd, 2013 at 12:09:28 PM
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My numbers match the other math report with the exception of 43824 combination. For 17-21 I am getting 43824 less and for 22-27 & M$19-M$21 I am getting 43824 more. It's from the thing kracker21 pointed out: getting a M$19 and a normal 21 or 20, getting a M$20 and a normal 21.
House Edge: 2.2696155385231%
Element Of Risk: 1.279553658198%
Fold: 22.6244343891403%
Hit Rate: 33.4077015421553%
Basic Strategy is play all except:
Fold suited:
2,3
2,4
2,5
2,6
3,4
3,5
Fold unsuited:
9,2-5
8,2-5
7,2-6
House Edge: 2.2696155385231%
Element Of Risk: 1.279553658198%
Fold: 22.6244343891403%
Hit Rate: 33.4077015421553%
Basic Strategy is play all except:
Fold suited:
2,3
2,4
2,5
2,6
3,4
3,5
Fold unsuited:
9,2-5
8,2-5
7,2-6
| Event | Units Won | Combinations | Probability | Return |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Lose | -2 | 34281216 | 0.439678640687044 | -0.879357281374088 |
| Fold | -1 | 17640000 | 0.226244343891403 | -0.226244343891403 |
| 17-21 | 2 | 18347436 | 0.23531766552775 | 0.470635331055499 |
| 22-27 & M$19-M$21 | 4 | 5732160 | 0.073518638224521 | 0.294074552898082 |
| 28-29 & M$22-M$27 | 6 | 1103196 | 0.014149198140795 | 0.084895188844769 |
| M$28, M$29 & 30 | 11 | 289800 | 0.00371687136393 | 0.040885585003232 |
| M$30 & Trips | 16 | 407952 | 0.005232246744852 | 0.083715947917629 |
| 31 | 41 | 132912 | 0.001704681872749 | 0.069891956782713 |
| M$ 31 | 76 | 28368 | 0.000363837842829 | 0.027651676055037 |
| M$ Mini Royal | 151 | 5760 | 0.000073875704128 | 0.011155231323299 |
| Total | 77968800 | 1 | -0.022696155385231 |
“Man Babes” #AxelFabulous
August 23rd, 2013 at 2:23:59 PM
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Miplet, excellent job as always! So were you going to tackle that 2nd chance bet as well :-)?
What looks good to me from the above pay table is the following:
Assume a player never experiences the 1 in 2,285 hands of getting a win of 76 or 151 units, which is going to be most players. A player is then "experiencing" a game that has a house edge of 6.15% with an EOR of 3.46%. That is a reasonable experience and the one that most players will have with the game as they play their first 200-300 hands.
You simply can't bring down the HE in a game too much by overweighting the 1 in 3000 hand type events that most players will never experience. The flow of the game and how quickly a player's bankroll is getting beat up will be felt and they will think the game is a "house game" that they can never win.
Same thought process applies to side bet pay tables. If the one in 3000 hand event is the one that brings the HE down from 16% to 6%, well guess what, your players are going to be experiencing the grind of the 16% HE game for 99.67% of the time they play the game. To me that doesn't provide a great player experience.
Note there is only 3.875% of the Return to Player that is provided by the top two pay out events above. That is good design IMHO. Well done Brent!!
What looks good to me from the above pay table is the following:
Assume a player never experiences the 1 in 2,285 hands of getting a win of 76 or 151 units, which is going to be most players. A player is then "experiencing" a game that has a house edge of 6.15% with an EOR of 3.46%. That is a reasonable experience and the one that most players will have with the game as they play their first 200-300 hands.
You simply can't bring down the HE in a game too much by overweighting the 1 in 3000 hand type events that most players will never experience. The flow of the game and how quickly a player's bankroll is getting beat up will be felt and they will think the game is a "house game" that they can never win.
Same thought process applies to side bet pay tables. If the one in 3000 hand event is the one that brings the HE down from 16% to 6%, well guess what, your players are going to be experiencing the grind of the 16% HE game for 99.67% of the time they play the game. To me that doesn't provide a great player experience.
Note there is only 3.875% of the Return to Player that is provided by the top two pay out events above. That is good design IMHO. Well done Brent!!
August 24th, 2013 at 12:48:47 PM
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Quote: ParadigmMiplet, excellent job as always! So were you going to tackle that 2nd chance bet as well :-)?
Well, if he won't, I will:
This assumes the bonus game works as follows:
(a) It is in play even if the main hand is folded;
(b) The suit does not have to match the Money$uit card's suit (although, of course, if it does not, then the best possible hand is 21).
| Result | Hands | Pay | Total |
|---|---|---|---|
| Royals | 12 | 250 | 3000 |
| Trips | 156 | 40 | 6240 |
| 31 | 60 | 100 | 6000 |
| 30 | 96 | 30 | 2880 |
| 29 | 120 | 15 | 1800 |
| 28 | 132 | 15 | 1980 |
| 27 | 180 | 15 | 2700 |
| 26 | 192 | 8 | 1536 |
| 25 | 240 | 8 | 1920 |
| 24 | 264 | 8 | 2112 |
| 23 | 312 | 8 | 2496 |
| 22 | 288 | 8 | 2304 |
| 21 | 2136 | 1 | 2136 |
| 20 | 3504 | 1 | 3504 |
| 19 | 2568 | 1 | 2568 |
| 18 | 2532 | 1 | 2532 |
| 17 | 2988 | 1 | 2988 |
| Lose | 50520 | -1 | -50520 |
| Total | 66300 | -1824 |
House Edge is 2.7511%
Hit Rate is 23.8%
August 24th, 2013 at 12:51:44 PM
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These assumptions are correct, and your numbers match the webpage. Fix your table coding though...lol
August 24th, 2013 at 1:20:24 PM
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Quote: tringlomaneThese assumptions are correct, and your numbers match the webpage. Fix your table coding though...lol
OOPS - missed the / in the closing /tbl tag.
August 24th, 2013 at 2:05:43 PM
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Quote: ThatDonGuy
Result Hands Pay Total Royals 12 250 3000 Trips 156 40 6240 31 60 100 6000 30 96 30 2880 29 120 15 1800 28 132 15 1980 27 180 15 2700 26 192 8 1536 25 240 8 1920 24 264 8 2112 23 312 8 2496 22 288 8 2304 21 2136 1 2136 20 3504 1 3504 19 2568 1 2568 18 2532 1 2532 17 2988 1 2988 Lose 50520 -1 -50520 Total 66300 -1824
House Edge is 2.7511%
Hit Rate is 23.8%
This pay table is a little top heavy for my liking with the top two pay events adding 13.57% to the Return to Player. A player gets one of these hands once in 921 hands and until one of these events occurs, he/she is experiencing a 16.3% HE Side bet. With a bet minimum that I assume will equal the Ante minimum of $5 at most tables, this bet is going to eat you up too quickly IMHO. Particularly in the early 200-300 hands when you are getting a feel for the game.
I would offer another pay table as follows:
Royals: 100-1
31: 75-1
Trips: 50-1
30: 30-1
28/29: 15-1
22-27: 10-1
17-21: 1-1
I get a HE of 2.82% making the above changes with the same Hit Rate.
August 25th, 2013 at 5:24:43 AM
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Quote: ParadigmSo were you going to tackle that 2nd chance bet as well :-)?
Quote: ThatDonGuyWell, if he won't, I will
I just wanted to leave you the easy one. ;+)
Quote: Paradigm
This pay table is a little top heavy for my liking with the top two pay events adding 13.57% to the Return to Player. A player gets one of these hands once in 921 hands and until one of these events occurs, he/she is experiencing a 16.3% HE Side bet. With a bet minimum that I assume will equal the Ante minimum of $5 at most tables, this bet is going to eat you up too quickly IMHO. Particularly in the early 200-300 hands when you are getting a feel for the game.
I would offer another pay table as follows:
Royals: 100-1
31: 75-1
Trips: 50-1
30: 30-1
28/29: 15-1
22-27: 10-1
17-21: 1-1
I get a HE of 2.82% making the above changes with the same Hit Rate.
Yep,more than one pay table is always good.
And here is a breakdown of all of the combinations:
| Total | Ways | Probability |
|---|---|---|
| 3 | 72 | 0.001085972850679 |
| 4 | 216 | 0.003257918552036 |
| 5 | 576 | 0.00868778280543 |
| 6 | 936 | 0.014117647058824 |
| 7 | 1584 | 0.023891402714932 |
| 8 | 2160 | 0.032579185520362 |
| 9 | 3108 | 0.046877828054299 |
| 10 | 17148 | 0.258642533936652 |
| 11 | 7944 | 0.119819004524887 |
| 12 | 3312 | 0.049954751131222 |
| 13 | 3792 | 0.057194570135747 |
| 14 | 3336 | 0.050316742081448 |
| 15 | 3396 | 0.051221719457014 |
| 16 | 2940 | 0.044343891402715 |
| 17 | 2988 | 0.045067873303167 |
| 18 | 2532 | 0.038190045248869 |
| 19 | 2568 | 0.038733031674208 |
| 20 | 3504 | 0.052850678733032 |
| 21 | 2136 | 0.032217194570136 |
| 22 | 288 | 0.004343891402715 |
| 23 | 312 | 0.004705882352941 |
| 24 | 264 | 0.003981900452489 |
| 25 | 240 | 0.003619909502262 |
| 26 | 192 | 0.00289592760181 |
| 27 | 180 | 0.002714932126697 |
| 28 | 132 | 0.001990950226244 |
| 29 | 120 | 0.001809954751131 |
| 30 | 96 | 0.001447963800905 |
| Trips | 156 | 0.002352941176471 |
| 31 | 60 | 0.000904977375566 |
| MiniRoyal | 12 | 0.000180995475113 |
| Total | 66300 | 1 |
“Man Babes” #AxelFabulous
August 25th, 2013 at 1:30:32 PM
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Quote: ParadigmQuote: ThatDonGuy
Result Hands Pay Total Royals 12 250 3000 Trips 156 40 6240 31 60 100 6000 30 96 30 2880 29 120 15 1800 28 132 15 1980 27 180 15 2700 26 192 8 1536 25 240 8 1920 24 264 8 2112 23 312 8 2496 22 288 8 2304 21 2136 1 2136 20 3504 1 3504 19 2568 1 2568 18 2532 1 2532 17 2988 1 2988 Lose 50520 -1 -50520 Total 66300 -1824
House Edge is 2.7511%
Hit Rate is 23.8%
This pay table is a little top heavy for my liking with the top two pay events adding 13.57% to the Return to Player. A player gets one of these hands once in 921 hands and until one of these events occurs, he/she is experiencing a 16.3% HE Side bet. With a bet minimum that I assume will equal the Ante minimum of $5 at most tables, this bet is going to eat you up too quickly IMHO. Particularly in the early 200-300 hands when you are getting a feel for the game.
I would offer another pay table as follows:
Royals: 100-1
31: 75-1
Trips: 50-1
30: 30-1
28/29: 15-1
22-27: 10-1
17-21: 1-1
I get a HE of 2.82% making the above changes with the same Hit Rate.
Sorry for the delay mike... I can definitely understand what your saying when looking at numbers on paper... But my main question for you is that dont you think it's just a little silly to contemplate offering a game that has higher possible payouts on the base game than the bonus/jackpot wager...? Because I do ;). When you think about it that way it should make more sence why I thought outside the box with this paytable and thought but was not only appropriate but very attractive for the players...
As far as the concern with the supposed 13% increase in the HA by removing the higher payouts, due to the relatively high hit rate with the Second chance wager and the relatively similar probabilities of hitting the different payouts prevents the production of any sort of High HA feeling for the players...(which you see when experimenting with the demo). Additionally due to the fact that the second payout level skyrockets to an 8-1 payout further decreases any sort of high HA feel as that payout is not very hard to achieve.,..(again something you see in the demo)
All of that being said, I do appreciate the feedback and will of course take this into consideration for the future. However, as of now these paytables will remain as they are on the site as I (and I know you) feel that the way the game is designed and plays produces a very fun and exiting playing experience for players in all aspects...
.
August 25th, 2013 at 9:09:19 PM
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As for the side bet, you must have the payouts higher than in the base game, imo. So you can't drop the mini royal below 150 to 1 for example.
August 25th, 2013 at 9:20:52 PM
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Mr. 31,
Enjoyed the game much more with the display of the community cards, and the fix you made on somebody else's recommendation was also happening to me, so appreciate the work on that as well. Had a nice Money31 that popped for 30K so I got to max bet for a while on that. The notation below still takes a second look sometimes: I think it's because the community cards are separated from my hand by the moneycard, but the notation below my hand refers to the total of my hand and the community cards, referencing the money card suit if applicable, but not adding its rank. It's a mixed and confusing visual message when you're moving quickly through the game. Would the layout still work if the community cards were below the money card, or community to the left, money to the right? Or could the line of text be moved above the moneycard and below the community card, so it more clearly referenced the community card value, and a second line of text give the moneycard 2nd chance value directly below it?
Editing for clarity: What I said above is accurate to my perception, but written in a confusing way. What I'm experiencing is: The proximity of the Moneycard to my hand makes my brain add and compare that card first and foremost. The text below (verbal part of my brain) usually doesn't match that value, which hurts my math brain, and I have to override that impression and deliberately look above the moneycard (implied as the 2nd value but perceived first) to evaluate the community cards (base game, which should be the primary emphasis), where my best value is more often than not in a different suit. It is not a good visual flow, not instinctive and easily grasped in one glance. Does that make sense?
Enjoyed the game much more with the display of the community cards, and the fix you made on somebody else's recommendation was also happening to me, so appreciate the work on that as well. Had a nice Money31 that popped for 30K so I got to max bet for a while on that. The notation below still takes a second look sometimes: I think it's because the community cards are separated from my hand by the moneycard, but the notation below my hand refers to the total of my hand and the community cards, referencing the money card suit if applicable, but not adding its rank. It's a mixed and confusing visual message when you're moving quickly through the game. Would the layout still work if the community cards were below the money card, or community to the left, money to the right? Or could the line of text be moved above the moneycard and below the community card, so it more clearly referenced the community card value, and a second line of text give the moneycard 2nd chance value directly below it?
Editing for clarity: What I said above is accurate to my perception, but written in a confusing way. What I'm experiencing is: The proximity of the Moneycard to my hand makes my brain add and compare that card first and foremost. The text below (verbal part of my brain) usually doesn't match that value, which hurts my math brain, and I have to override that impression and deliberately look above the moneycard (implied as the 2nd value but perceived first) to evaluate the community cards (base game, which should be the primary emphasis), where my best value is more often than not in a different suit. It is not a good visual flow, not instinctive and easily grasped in one glance. Does that make sense?
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
August 25th, 2013 at 9:24:19 PM
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Babs, I met Brent when he showed the game at SHFL focus group. I had told him it sucked prior to actually seeing it played.
YES : I did apologize on the spot, face to face. I am DUMB, but always admit when I am wrong. Which happens too often !
YES : I did apologize on the spot, face to face. I am DUMB, but always admit when I am wrong. Which happens too often !
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
August 25th, 2013 at 9:33:45 PM
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Aw, Buzzard, you'll melt a woman's heart admitting stuff like that. lol...
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
August 26th, 2013 at 6:17:20 AM
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Careful babs. I am still not recovered from last years heart attack. I must avoid all exciting thoughts.
Shed not for her
the bitter tear
Nor give the heart
to vain regret
Tis but the casket
that lies here,
The gem that filled it
Sparkles yet
August 26th, 2013 at 6:59:05 AM
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I hear what you saying on the side bet pays vs. base game. I admit I didn't even look at that but was looking at each wager independently. That being said, in UTH the Trips bet pays 50-1 for a Royal and the main games Blind Bonus is 500-1. So larger pays in a main game has been done before.
I also agree with the nice pop for the 8-1 pays in the current pay table, I just got a little greedier at those levels and pushed them to 10-1 going with the concept of even larger frequent pays.
All that being said, I like the game and the 2nd chance side bet.....but you already know that :-)!
I also agree with the nice pop for the 8-1 pays in the current pay table, I just got a little greedier at those levels and pushed them to 10-1 going with the concept of even larger frequent pays.
All that being said, I like the game and the 2nd chance side bet.....but you already know that :-)!
September 6th, 2013 at 4:21:30 PM
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Overall a very nice game!
September 7th, 2013 at 9:19:04 AM
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Quote: RealizeGamingOverall a very nice game!
Thank you Realize!
.
September 11th, 2013 at 12:34:26 PM
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Nice game mrsuit31. One thing tickled my fancy not seen... a straight-flush. Other than that the 1 in 467 chance at any 31 is good, and not too top-heavy.
I also like the way the M$card can work against the Customer without the side-bet. Pure genius there.
I also like the way the M$card can work against the Customer without the side-bet. Pure genius there.
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.
September 11th, 2013 at 3:16:19 PM
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I caught another AdKd in my hand, and Qd in the community and a 9d in the money$uit.
Ran my total up to $14,000. (I was playing $100 / $100 at the time - love fun betting)
I have managed to win EVERY time I have tried this demo. I hope the real game treats me this well
Ran my total up to $14,000. (I was playing $100 / $100 at the time - love fun betting)
I have managed to win EVERY time I have tried this demo. I hope the real game treats me this well
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
September 12th, 2013 at 9:35:26 AM
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Quote: RaleighCrapsI caught another AdKd in my hand, and Qd in the community and a 9d in the money$uit.
Ran my total up to $14,000. (I was playing $100 / $100 at the time - love fun betting)
I have managed to win EVERY time I have tried this demo. I hope the real game treats me this well
Haha Nice! I hope it does as well!
Keep it up ;)
.
September 12th, 2013 at 9:35:54 AM
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\Quote: 98ClubsNice game mrsuit31. One thing tickled my fancy not seen... a straight-flush. Other than that the 1 in 467 chance at any 31 is good, and not too top-heavy.
I also like the way the M$card can work against the Customer without the side-bet. Pure genius there.
Thank you 98!
.
September 19th, 2013 at 11:54:41 AM
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Thank you for at least trying to make a game, not like BJ or Poker, a little bit too simplistic for me, its not something I would play but all the best with it
Controversial sometimes, brutally honest..Always
