Finally made some money on craps
My bankroll was $200 and I played the passline for $5 with $15-16 on odds, depending on the point, placed 6 and 8, and each time the passline hit and a new point was established I'd place two more place bets on 5 and 9 and then stick with that until another point was made. I bought 4 and 10 for $10 and managed to hit them a few times as well. Put a buck or two on the hardways when I was up by a bit and those probably got me a little more than I put in.
Gave me a cheaper way to get the numbers and if the hand was crappy when I just had 6 and 8 it minimized the damage as opposed to placing more numbers. If I didn't have 6 or 8 as a point I had three out of the 6 numbers covered, so not too bad. The only aggravating time other than the 7 hitting was when I was on a roll hitting field numbers and making other people money, but not myself, lol.
But what's a "Nevada breakfast" ?
Quote: DJTeddyBearNice. Congrats.
But what's a "Nevada breakfast" ?
Yeah I googled it and didn't come up with anything.
My wife and I had such terrible blackjack play at the Bellagio last time we were there that whenever something goes against us we say that we were "Bellagioed".
Quote: FleaStiffA sensible system but the main thing is that you had sufficient self-discipline to stick to it. I only occasionally make field bets, often for the dealers. Field bets are just a tad too high a house edge for me to think of them as very desirable.
I disagree, assuming it's 3:1 on the 12 I find the field a nice way to fill the prop bet urge. At 2.76% it's a nice "prop" bet to make that won't entirely ruin you. On the other hand, I've seen a handful of people use the field to double their bankroll at the beginning of a session. It always gives me a chuckle to see them lose, and depresses me when they win.
Yeah, I figured it meant 'point, seven out'. But your definition makes a LOT of sense.Quote: PeteMNevada breakfast or Vegas breakfast: Two rolls, no honey.
Quote: PeteMNevada breakfast or Vegas breakfast: Two rolls, no honey.
Two rolls and no coffee.
You can always use field bets to place more numbers or bump up your passline odds, etc.
Quote: boymimboI think a "Nevada breakfast" is called a Point - Seven. I don't know what he's talking about either as it's not in any lingo that I heard.
My wife and I had such terrible blackjack play at the Bellagio last time we were there that whenever something goes against us we say that we were "Bellagioed".
Yeah you make a point and then seven out.
Quote: cardsharkYeah I googled it and didn't come up with anything.
I have a Craps strategy DVD and the dealer that teaches the "class" uses that term.
Quote: derik999With a field bet,if you have a point of 5, 6 or 8 and the other two placed then the worst that can happen is you either have a wash if you bet the same amount on 5 and the field, or you win the difference between the place bet 6 or 8 and the field, such as if you have $5 in the field and $6 on the 6 or 8, so you win a couple bucks.
You can always use field bets to place more numbers or bump up your passline odds, etc.
So, instead of winning $7 on the 6/8, you just win $2,and then you have to put the field bet up again. Then the seven comes along and you lose everything. Reduces variance, adds to expected loss, like any hedge.
I don't know what you mean by "bumping up your passline odds". Any point number that's a field number pays just even money on the field.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
you risk $22 to win $2 14/36 times, win $5 14/36 times, win $10 1/36 times, win $15 1/36 times and lose $22 6/36 times.
2(14/36) + 5(14/36) + 10(1/36) + 15(1/36) - 22(6/36)
.7778 + 1.9444 + .2778 + .4167 - 3.6667
for an expected loss of 25cents per roll or 39cents per roll if they only pay double on both 2 and 12.
Quote: goatcabinSo, instead of winning $7 on the 6/8, you just win $2,and then you have to put the field bet up again. Then the seven comes along and you lose everything. Reduces variance, adds to expected loss, like any hedge.
I don't know what you mean by "bumping up your passline odds". Any point number that's a field number pays just even money on the field.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
I mean adding another increment of whatever you've been betting on the odds. Let's say I have a $5 chip on the passline and I hit the field or 6 and 8. Instead of putting whatever I won back in my bankroll I could take $5 out of it and put it on the odds. If I hit that number again, take another $5 out of that amount and stack it on the odds, etc.
I try not to play the field anymore if I can help it. I either just take my winnings from every point I hit and put it back in my bankroll or press it once and awhile.
In the beginning I tried to use the field to cover all the numbers and then just focused on hitting that point, taking the win and then pressing it the next time around. Back and fourth, take the winnings then press. I'd have to drop my bets down quite a bit to hang around doing that. I start with $200 now and increments of $5 or $6 are what I bet. I usually don't more than double those amounts on the numbers if I press. I just try to get as much back as possible while the dice keep going. I could press press press and hope for that one number to hit for the big payoff, but that's too much stress and too slim a chance to be worth it.
When it all comes down to it, I don't think anybody is going to expect to have a big night unless the 7 comes up a lot less than the probabilities say it should.
Quote: rudeboyoithat strategy is called the ironcross.
you risk $22 to win $2 14/36 times, win $5 14/36 times, win $10 1/36 times, win $15 1/36 times and lose $22 6/36 times.
2(14/36) + 5(14/36) + 10(1/36) + 15(1/36) - 22(6/36)
.7778 + 1.9444 + .2778 + .4167 - 3.6667
for an expected loss of 25cents per roll or 39cents per roll if they only pay double on both 2 and 12.
Yeah, I did a large simulation on that a while back. I'm afraid it's buried in the "1.14% hoax" thread. Sigh.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Great. I just played three games on the Craps Simulator. I went down to zero three times in a row out of the three games that I played. When does this variance thing kick in? I could sure use it.Quote: derik999Managed to walk away with $400 bucks last night and felt pretty good.
Quote: derik999I mean adding another increment of whatever you've been betting on the odds. Let's say I have a $5 chip on the passline and I hit the field or 6 and 8. Instead of putting whatever I won back in my bankroll I could take $5 out of it and put it on the odds. If I hit that number again, take another $5 out of that amount and stack it on the odds, etc.
OK, I see what you're saying. Of course, this is limited by the odds maximum. However, consider this: if you take some cheques out of your rail and put them on the odds, they don't have to go through the "strainer" that is the field bet.
Quote: derik999I try not to play the field anymore if I can help it. I either just take my winnings from every point I hit and put it back in my bankroll or press it once and awhile.
If you can help it? Is someone forcing you? >:-)
Quote: derik999In the beginning I tried to use the field to cover all the numbers and then just focused on hitting that point, taking the win and then pressing it the next time around. Back and fourth, take the winnings then press. I'd have to drop my bets down quite a bit to hang around doing that. I start with $200 now and increments of $5 or $6 are what I bet. I usually don't more than double those amounts on the numbers if I press. I just try to get as much back as possible while the dice keep going. I could press press press and hope for that one number to hit for the big payoff, but that's too much stress and too slim a chance to be worth it.
worth it... for you.
Quote: derik999When it all comes down to it, I don't think anybody is going to expect to have a big night unless the 7 comes up a lot less than the probabilities say it should.
Well, it depends on when it comes up, too. If you're on the passline, lots of comeout sevens are quite welcome.
Also, if you're looking for a "big night", the field bets reduce the wins on the place numbers 5, 6 and 8, reducing your variance and the magnitude of your wins, on average. If you like the Field because of the double/triple payoffs, you could, of course, only buy the 4 and 10 and place the 9, so the two bets would reinforce each other instead of partially offsetting. I don't recall whether your casino pays the triple; if not, another reason to stay away from it.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Quote: FleaStiffGreat. I just played three games on the Craps Simulator. I went down to zero three times in a row out of the three games that I played. When does this variance thing kick in? I could sure use it.
If you lost all your money, then that WAS variance, just the wrong kind. Your expected loss was no doubt a lot less than your actual (well, pretend) loss.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Quote: goatcabin
OK, I see what you're saying. Of course, this is limited by the odds maximum. However, consider this: if you take some cheques out of your rail and put them on the odds, they don't have to go through the "strainer" that is the field bet.
The max odds at the casino here is 10x the passline.
Quote: goatcabin
If you can help it? Is someone forcing you? >:-)
The devil on my shoulder probably. Whispering softly all those hunches about what number is "due".
Quote: goatcabin
worth it... for you.
Indeed. :)
Quote: goatcabin
Well, it depends on when it comes up, too. If you're on the passline, lots of comeout sevens are quite welcome.
Also, if you're looking for a "big night", the field bets reduce the wins on the place numbers 5, 6 and 8, reducing your variance and the magnitude of your wins, on average. If you like the Field because of the double/triple payoffs, you could, of course, only buy the 4 and 10 and place the 9, so the two bets would reinforce each other instead of partially offsetting. I don't recall whether your casino pays the triple; if not, another reason to stay away from it.
The casino only pays double for 2 and 12 in the field. Very true about 5, 6 and 8. Keep hitting the two numbers with the most dice combos after the 7 and only make two bucks (I start with $6 on 6 and 8), or cancel each other out and waste a roll if the 5 hits.
Is it better to just buy 4 and 10 as opposed to placing it if the vig is "ideal" for doing so?
Quote: FleaStiffGreat. I just played three games on the Craps Simulator. I went down to zero three times in a row out of the three games that I played. When does this variance thing kick in? I could sure use it.
Better on a simulator than the real thing right? What were the size of your bets?
Quote: derik999Is it better to just buy 4 and 10 as opposed to placing it if the vig is "ideal" for doing so?
Since the HA on placing the 4/10 is 6.67%, it pays to buy them unless your bet is so small that the $1 vig is more than 6.67%. Since you are playing with $.50 cheques, that means you could buy them for $10 and pay $.50 vig, or 5%. More liberal rules, like collecting on a win only, would reduce that 5% to 1.67%.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Yes. I do like that simulator's refresh button, though. You click it and you got a whole 'nother wad of dough. I sure wish a real casino had a refresh button that I could use, other than that one that reads "ATM".
> What were the size of your bets?
A darn sight larger than they would have been in the Real World! Yet even when using a simulator, I mentally cringe at betting a 100.00 on the Line and a 100.00 in the Field.
Quote: FleaStiff>Better on a simulator than the real thing right?
Yes. I do like that simulator's refresh button, though. You click it and you got a whole 'nother wad of dough. I sure wish a real casino had a refresh button that I could use, other than that one that reads "ATM".
> What were the size of your bets?
A darn sight larger than they would have been in the Real World! Yet even when using a simulator, I mentally cringe at betting a 100.00 on the Line and a 100.00 in the Field.
Yeah I still get pissed off once and awhile using the simulator if I 7 out really quickly, lol.
