Pai Gow Poker - Banking

Just got back from another great trip to Vegas and actually came home with more money than I went there with. There's a first time for everything! :)

Played a lot of games at a lot of different casinos but had a question about one thing I kept encountering.

I almost always would invoke my option to bank while playing Pai Gow Poker when the other players were betting what I was comfortable with. In addition, I would always bet $1 on the fortune bonus (and yes, I am 100% fully aware this is never a good bet, but I was just having some fun).

The odd thing I kept encountering is that the dealers would insist that when banking I should bet $5 on the fortune side bet as if it became slightly more advantageous at that point. I am not a mathematician, which is why I consult The Wizards Website to do the math for me, but I can't understand why the HE would change on the fortune bet while banking. Can anyone provide any insight as to why it is suggested to bet more on the fortune bet while banking?

As a side note, I was a bit shocked at how unprepared the dealers were when a player wished to bank, most of them needed to call their pit boss over to help them through the procedures. At the Tropicana, the dealers were very nice and friendly, but one particular dealer stated that no one asked to bank in the past 6 months. I had everyone at my table banking and we were have a blast taking each other's money.

Thanks!

Quote: awakefield1983

Can anyone provide any insight as to why it is suggested to bet more on the fortune bet while banking?

It isn't. As you discovered, some dealers are clueless about banking, and this suggestion is no exception. Playing the side bet will dilute or negate any advantage you have as banker.

On the fortune side bet specifically there are all the Envy payouts which are only available if you are betting $5 or more. It makes a lot more sense to bet the fortune for $5 occassionally than for $1 every hand so that you can get that Envy payout.

What bigfoot66 says is true if you look at the expected loss percentages, but if you look at the expected losses in absolute currency, you're better off betting $1 than $5, even at a full table. With a $1 bet the average loss per round is 7.77¢; with a $5 bet the average loss per round is 15.66¢ to 38.83¢ depending on how many other players there are.

Quote: JB

What bigfoot66 says is true if you look at the expected loss percentages, but if you look at the expected losses in absolute currency, you're better off betting $1 than $5, even at a full table. With a $1 bet the average loss per round is 7.77¢; with a $5 bet the average loss per round is 15.66¢ to 38.83¢ depending on how many other players there are.

Indeed, I suggested that he make the bet "occassionally", and if he did make the bet every 2.5 hands at $5 instead of every hand at $1 he would be ahead. Honestly though, if we are only trying to minimize total loss then he should not be playing the game at all right? I think the reason that the dealers suggested that he make the bonus bet for $5 when banking is that, at a full table, I would think that the expected loss would be even less than 15.66 cents as you get an extra hand to envy (my understanding is that you usually do not get to envy the banker hand, but if you are banking you can envy the whole table, I could be wrong). Regardless, even if the expected loss is twice as high, getting 5x the variance at 2x the expected loss is not a bad trade off if you are playing a negative EV game anyway.

i do not think the envy applies to the house's hand, even if you are banking. the reason is you cannot "envy" a large payout, because the house doesn't get one.

i am of the opinion that if you are going to play the fortune side bet, $5 is better than $1, because of the lower percentage lost. i know the real amount of money lost is more, but i think you should always go by the percentages.

obviously betting 100k a hand on the banker in baccarat, you would expect to lose more money overall than playing $100 a hand at roulette -- but the baccarat is a better bet because you can win more.

Quote: sodawater

i do not think the envy applies to the house's hand, even if you are banking. the reason is you cannot "envy" a large payout, because the house doesn't get one.

I would be willing to bet that this is one of those things that varies from casino to casino. I don't agree with your logic though, I never play the fortune side bet and the other players taunted me when I got 4 OAK. They got paid and I did not.