My First Experience with the Don't
April 4th, 2010 at 5:10:27 PM
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So, I've had a fascination with the Don't way of betting, and have wanted to try it. But the icy stares of other players, and the general mean-ness of those players, has always made me stay away from it. However, I decided this weekend that I was going to try it out, no matter what.
As I made my way to the table, I was prepared. I was going to get as close to the dealer as possible. I really only wanted one person to be next to me, and not be surrounded by angry players. Also, being next to the dealer would mean the players on the other side of the table wouldn't be able to see me. That was a bonus. Then, all I'd have to worry about were the mean comments directed at me. I had prepared several rebuttals, but finally decided that I just wouldn't say anything. I wouldn't cheer when somebody 7'd out, and I wouldn't complain if someone made their point.
So imagine my surprise when I walk up to the table and discover that every single player there is playing the Don't. Ok, there were only 5 people there, but still. I had never seen that before. Ever. First question: has anybody ever experienced this?
So, I picked a spot, and started playing the Don't. It was a very surreal experience having EVERYBODY hoping that the roller would 7-out. And cheering when he did so.
I played very basic. $5 Don't Pass, Double Odds. Then I'd usually wait a roll, then put out a $5 Don't Come with Double Odds. Then wait a roll, then another Don't Come. I stuck with 2 Don't Come's maximum.
It was an interesting way to play, and it was nice that I could play it, figure out the odds and payouts without having to worry about getting lynched by the other players. Not too long after I got there, another player walked up, and noticed that everyone was playing the Don't and made a snide comment about it. He started playing the Do, and after the third person 7'd-out, he switched to the Don't and stayed there.
All of us were basically making a point, and after 2-3 rolls usually, 7-out, and everybody was happy. I was kind of amazed that most of the players were making HUGE Don't Pass bets, and either no odds at all, or low odds. (EX: $55 Don't Pass, then point is 6, so $30 Lay Odds). Also, none of them were making Don't Come bets. I had the dealers occasionally forget to pay me on my Don't Come bets, but they tended to remember fairly quickly that I was betting that way. It was also fun to have a person roll a 7 on a come-out roll, lose my Don't Pass bet, but get paid on my two Don't Come bets from a previous rolling session. Weird. Also, cheering when someone 7'd-out and high-fiving your neighbor because of it: very weird.
I got to a point where I had doubled my money, and I should have quit. (Should have's rule the universe!) But I kept playing. Eventually, about 3 people came in playing the Do. It got to the point where one side of the table was Do players, and other side was Don't players. The Do players got on some huge streaks, and I lost all my money. Ok, I only lost $100 because that's all I started with, but still, I was at $200 at one point, so it was a shame.
It was still an interesting experience, and I will definitely do it again.
I have one other question, for employees (be they dealers or pit bosses). I know that in Craps games, when a point is established, the stick will always push the dice in such a way that a seven isn't showing. Whether they push the dice showing the point, or showing a hardway bey they may have or the roller may have, or even if they know the roller likes to set the dice a certain way, they'll push it that way. But NEVER do they push a 7. And I understand that. However, if, as in my situation, everybody at the table is playing the Don't, would you ever consider changing that rule, and pushing the dice as a 7? I mean, the stick would say, "Point is 9," and everybody, including the roller, would yell out, "No 9! 7! 7!". Seeing as how every player is rooting for a 7, why not push the dice as a 7? Naturally, I wouldn't expect that in a situation where even one player is playing the Do, but maybe this was a unique situation.
As I made my way to the table, I was prepared. I was going to get as close to the dealer as possible. I really only wanted one person to be next to me, and not be surrounded by angry players. Also, being next to the dealer would mean the players on the other side of the table wouldn't be able to see me. That was a bonus. Then, all I'd have to worry about were the mean comments directed at me. I had prepared several rebuttals, but finally decided that I just wouldn't say anything. I wouldn't cheer when somebody 7'd out, and I wouldn't complain if someone made their point.
So imagine my surprise when I walk up to the table and discover that every single player there is playing the Don't. Ok, there were only 5 people there, but still. I had never seen that before. Ever. First question: has anybody ever experienced this?
So, I picked a spot, and started playing the Don't. It was a very surreal experience having EVERYBODY hoping that the roller would 7-out. And cheering when he did so.
I played very basic. $5 Don't Pass, Double Odds. Then I'd usually wait a roll, then put out a $5 Don't Come with Double Odds. Then wait a roll, then another Don't Come. I stuck with 2 Don't Come's maximum.
It was an interesting way to play, and it was nice that I could play it, figure out the odds and payouts without having to worry about getting lynched by the other players. Not too long after I got there, another player walked up, and noticed that everyone was playing the Don't and made a snide comment about it. He started playing the Do, and after the third person 7'd-out, he switched to the Don't and stayed there.
All of us were basically making a point, and after 2-3 rolls usually, 7-out, and everybody was happy. I was kind of amazed that most of the players were making HUGE Don't Pass bets, and either no odds at all, or low odds. (EX: $55 Don't Pass, then point is 6, so $30 Lay Odds). Also, none of them were making Don't Come bets. I had the dealers occasionally forget to pay me on my Don't Come bets, but they tended to remember fairly quickly that I was betting that way. It was also fun to have a person roll a 7 on a come-out roll, lose my Don't Pass bet, but get paid on my two Don't Come bets from a previous rolling session. Weird. Also, cheering when someone 7'd-out and high-fiving your neighbor because of it: very weird.
I got to a point where I had doubled my money, and I should have quit. (Should have's rule the universe!) But I kept playing. Eventually, about 3 people came in playing the Do. It got to the point where one side of the table was Do players, and other side was Don't players. The Do players got on some huge streaks, and I lost all my money. Ok, I only lost $100 because that's all I started with, but still, I was at $200 at one point, so it was a shame.
It was still an interesting experience, and I will definitely do it again.
I have one other question, for employees (be they dealers or pit bosses). I know that in Craps games, when a point is established, the stick will always push the dice in such a way that a seven isn't showing. Whether they push the dice showing the point, or showing a hardway bey they may have or the roller may have, or even if they know the roller likes to set the dice a certain way, they'll push it that way. But NEVER do they push a 7. And I understand that. However, if, as in my situation, everybody at the table is playing the Don't, would you ever consider changing that rule, and pushing the dice as a 7? I mean, the stick would say, "Point is 9," and everybody, including the roller, would yell out, "No 9! 7! 7!". Seeing as how every player is rooting for a 7, why not push the dice as a 7? Naturally, I wouldn't expect that in a situation where even one player is playing the Do, but maybe this was a unique situation.
April 4th, 2010 at 5:20:24 PM
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reminds me when i was playing the donts alone at an empty table and the stickman out of habit announced, "winner, winner...". i look over and respond "i dont feel like a winner." the whole crew had a good laugh.
April 4th, 2010 at 5:54:02 PM
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Welcome to the Dark Side.
I have not seen that many people playing the Don't at one table, and only one time when there were several Don't and no Do side players, although I can see that people might show up and take one look at what was going on and walk away.
I'm sure there have been times when I played the Don't and people thought I ruined a hot streak and they left the table, but I've never noticed people getting angry at me. I've had a few people question my wisdom - "Why play the Don't at such a hot table?" When the seven came and I won on three points I would say, "That's why," but usually I just keep quiet and happy when I win. On the flip side, when three points hit I'll get the, "See, I told you not to play the Don't."
I'm not strictly a Do or a Don't side player, but I try to stick to one side at any given session. Of course, this adds another "should have" or two -- "I should have played Don't (or Do), I would have cleaned up." Switching mid-session is something I mostly avoid -- not much can make you feel dumber than switching to the Don't because the table has "gone cold" only to have the next shooter go on a tear. I'm a firm believer in the theory that the smallest changes at the table have an effect on the outcome -- from the dice bouncing off my chips to small changes in the timing of bets being paid affecting how the shooter picks up the dice. So I "know" that things would have been different if I had bet differently, but that doesn't get rid of the "should haves".
I have noticed one thing the dealers do if I'm betting the Don't and I am the only player at the table (or the only one at my end) -- they'll turn the puck so that it reads "NO" instead of "ON".
I have not seen that many people playing the Don't at one table, and only one time when there were several Don't and no Do side players, although I can see that people might show up and take one look at what was going on and walk away.
I'm sure there have been times when I played the Don't and people thought I ruined a hot streak and they left the table, but I've never noticed people getting angry at me. I've had a few people question my wisdom - "Why play the Don't at such a hot table?" When the seven came and I won on three points I would say, "That's why," but usually I just keep quiet and happy when I win. On the flip side, when three points hit I'll get the, "See, I told you not to play the Don't."
I'm not strictly a Do or a Don't side player, but I try to stick to one side at any given session. Of course, this adds another "should have" or two -- "I should have played Don't (or Do), I would have cleaned up." Switching mid-session is something I mostly avoid -- not much can make you feel dumber than switching to the Don't because the table has "gone cold" only to have the next shooter go on a tear. I'm a firm believer in the theory that the smallest changes at the table have an effect on the outcome -- from the dice bouncing off my chips to small changes in the timing of bets being paid affecting how the shooter picks up the dice. So I "know" that things would have been different if I had bet differently, but that doesn't get rid of the "should haves".
I have noticed one thing the dealers do if I'm betting the Don't and I am the only player at the table (or the only one at my end) -- they'll turn the puck so that it reads "NO" instead of "ON".
April 4th, 2010 at 6:04:16 PM
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when i play the DP or DC, i only play one number. when i play the PL and CL, i play to get more than one number. whichever way im betting, i want to have more winning combinations than losing combinations.
April 4th, 2010 at 6:36:37 PM
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I've never seen a table with more than one wrong player. Certainly seems like a bizarre / surreal situation!
I'd never expect to see that. It's not merely procedure, but habit. He'd probably feel like dirt if he changed procedure to placate the table, and then discovered a right player.Quote: konceptum....In my situation, everybody at the table is playing the Don't, would you ever consider changing that rule, and pushing the dice as a 7? I mean, the stick would say, "Point is 9," and everybody, including the roller, would yell out, "No 9! 7! 7!". Seeing as how every player is rooting for a 7, why not push the dice as a 7? Naturally, I wouldn't expect that in a situation where even one player is playing the Do, but maybe this was a unique situation.
On the other hand, procedure / habit might have forced bad wording, but at least he could blame procedure / habit.Quote: rudeboyoireminds me when i was playing the donts alone at an empty table and the stickman out of habit announced, "winner, winner...". i look over and respond "i dont feel like a winner." the whole crew had a good laugh.
Cool. Would they spin it back to 'ON' if a right player showed up?Quote: seattlediceI have noticed one thing the dealers do if I'm betting the Don't and I am the only player at the table (or the only one at my end) -- they'll turn the puck so that it reads "NO" instead of "ON".
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
April 4th, 2010 at 7:33:33 PM
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Quote: seattlediceI've had a few people question my wisdom - "Why play the Don't at such a hot table?" When the seven came and I won on three points I would say, "That's why," but usually I just keep quiet and happy when I win.
Yeah, my general piece of wisdom is to shut the fuck up when playing the dark side. Sorry, didn't mean at all to be insulting or talking directly to you at all - just didn't have a better way to put it haha. I have never had anyone get mad at me for playing it, although I have been called a "vulture" before. You'll never see more than a smirk or nodding to the don't player on the other side of the table when I'm playing them.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
April 4th, 2010 at 8:43:50 PM
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I used to hate it when a Don't player would jump on my table, but now it doesn't bother me. Playing the don't seems to be much more prevalent in MS. Last trip, we had at least one don't every session, and many times the Don'ts outnumbered the Do's. Only one to two times did they turn out to be jerks. Most of the time, they quietly pick up their winnings. I still have a hard time playing PL when a Don't is shooting. I know there is nothing rational to this, since they have no more control over throwing a 7 than I do throwing the point, but it just feels wrong. I still am slightly bothered when a table is running real good, and a Don't will squeeze into a spot and then go Don't right away. I figure there are at least 3 or 4 other tables that are probably cold as heck, so why come to this table and mess with the mojo. But as has been pointed out, their thought process probably is the table is overdue for some quick 7 outs.
Last time a husband and wife were both playing the Don't. He was betting big, throwing, and kept making points. After he made his 3rd point, he asked for the other dice. That was funny. I had never seen someone change dice in the middle of the roll. After he made a point with those dice, he just flat quit. Passed the dice to his wife. She made 2 rolls and then got the 7. Too funny.
Last time a husband and wife were both playing the Don't. He was betting big, throwing, and kept making points. After he made his 3rd point, he asked for the other dice. That was funny. I had never seen someone change dice in the middle of the roll. After he made a point with those dice, he just flat quit. Passed the dice to his wife. She made 2 rolls and then got the 7. Too funny.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back !
Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
April 4th, 2010 at 8:50:35 PM
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Personally, I think it's pretty obnoxious to play the donts when you're shooting. I have never encountered a table of don't players, at most maybe 1-2 guys betting big. You're betting against everyone and "in charge" of the dice, it just seems wrong.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
April 4th, 2010 at 9:13:30 PM
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Its not just habit ... there is a procedures manual and it must be followed. Winner. The Dealers are supposed to listen to the Stickman's calls and thats why there is a certain order to them even if humor often creeps in. "Take the Dos, Pay the Don'ts" ... it will not matter that there are no bets on the pass line and all bets are on the DontPass. Casinos do not want to see anything out of the ordinary and do not want to hear it either.
Shooting from the Don't... so what. You are NOT betting on the shooter. You are betting on the DICE.
Five players on the Dont? Most unusual. 1 or 2 atmost is what I'm used to having. Often I am the only one on the Donts.
Shooting from the Don't... so what. You are NOT betting on the shooter. You are betting on the DICE.
Five players on the Dont? Most unusual. 1 or 2 atmost is what I'm used to having. Often I am the only one on the Donts.
April 4th, 2010 at 11:09:35 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearQuote: seattledice
I have noticed one thing the dealers do if I'm betting the Don't and I am the only player at the table (or the only one at my end) -- they'll turn the puck so that it reads "NO" instead of "ON".
Cool. Would they spin it back to 'ON' if a right player showed up?
I think so.
Quote: seattledice
Personally, I think it's pretty obnoxious to play the donts when you're shooting. I have never encountered a table of don't players, at most maybe 1-2 guys betting big. You're betting against everyone and "in charge" of the dice, it just seems wrong.
I usually won't shoot from the Don't unless the table has been cold for a while, which probably means I'm ahead too. (So you could also look at this as an only shoot from the Don't when I'm ahead rule.) Other players don't seem to mind that much when I'm just following the trend. If I win and they lose, they'll say someting like, "Guess you knew what you were doing." If I start hitting numbers we all have a good laugh, and I switch to a small bet on the pass line and keep shooting. Then if I seven out I can still quit while I'm ahead and if I keep hitting numbers I can win a little more. Before I started using the only shoot when ahead rule, I tried passing the dice once after I'd hit a few points and run out of chips, and people got mad. I shrugged, "I can't make a line bet." One guy at the other end of the table tossed me a nickel so I could keep shooting.
I think it would be obnoxious to shoot from the Don't and cheer loudly when you seven out, just like it would be when anyone else is shooting. But just betting against the dice and shooting? If I'm betting against the dice, which I have no control over after they leave my hand, I hope I've made the right bet. It's not me against you, it's all of us against the house. I've seen rolls where both Do and Don't bettors clean up, and rolls where both sides get eaten alive. The concept of Don't bettors playing against the shooter is a hard thing to combat -- I've thought it myself when I'm shooting (on the Pass Line) and see a big bet on the Don't Pass - I say to myself, "Oh, you don't think I can hit this, huh?"
April 4th, 2010 at 11:13:45 PM
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There ended up being more than 5. I made the 6th Don't player, and the guy I mentioned who started as a Do and switched to the Don't made 7. When the Do players showed up, there were still the 7 of us on Don't, and 3 Do players. Like I said, it was just a surreal experience.
I have a couple of technical questions on playing the Don't that I hope people can help me with. Actually, I guess I know that you can help me with it, hence the reason I ask it here. :) So, if I make one or two Don't Come bets, and lay odds on those, and then the point is rolled, hence losing my Don't Pass bet, my lay odds still remain on the Don't Come. I noticed that if one of those numbers is rolled, they are quick to pick up that Don't Come and Lay Odds as a loss to the player. I find this intriguing since on the Do side, the Come Odds are assumed not working on the come out roll. It appears that the Lay Odds are assumed working on the come out roll. Is this correct? And does that also mean that I should be paid my flat Don't Come as well as the Lay Odds if a 7 is rolled on the come out? I guess I'm just wondering if I have to specifically mention that my Lay Odds are working (I can't really think of a reason why I wouldn't have them working).
My next question is one for the Don't players. I have seen Don't players call no action when the point is either 6 or 8, or if their Don't Come best is a 6 or 8. I understand the math and number as to why this shouldn't be done. However, I'm just curious if the Don't players on this forum do call no action or not. Again, yes I know that mathematically you're better off leaving the bet and taking full odds. But does that silly superstition or other reasons ever creep into you and make you want to not take action on the 6 or 8?
Next question. I like to play the Hard 10. Yes, I know it's a high house-edge bet and stupid to make, but I enjoy it. I play a red on it, and when it hits, I throw another red on it. I've had it hit 4 times in a row doing this. Yes, it's rare. And plenty more times I lose on it, but it's just fun for me. It gives me that one little big win that adds excitement. Further, I usually play it as a 5 and 1 two-way, so it's also how I achieve my tipping of the dealers. My question is, if the point is 10, should I then maybe pick a different hard-way to play? (Let's just assume for the moment that I'm going to play one, and not get into why I shouldn't play it in the first place.) The reason I ask is because, since I'm rooting that the 10 NOT roll, then betting a hard 10 would seem contrary to that. On the other hand, the hard 10 does mean that I have that miniscule chance that if the 10 does roll, I might recoup some of my losses.
Final question. When playing the Don't, is there a good way to make dealer tips as part of your Don't betting and/or Lay Odds? I know in another thread, someone mentioned that when playing the Do side, it was a simple thing to add a few white chips to your odds, and if it hit, throw the whites to the dealers as their tip. I like this idea for playing the Do side, but is their an equivalent for the Don't side that people have done? If not, how do you Don't players usually do your tipping?
Sorry for being so long-winded.
I have a couple of technical questions on playing the Don't that I hope people can help me with. Actually, I guess I know that you can help me with it, hence the reason I ask it here. :) So, if I make one or two Don't Come bets, and lay odds on those, and then the point is rolled, hence losing my Don't Pass bet, my lay odds still remain on the Don't Come. I noticed that if one of those numbers is rolled, they are quick to pick up that Don't Come and Lay Odds as a loss to the player. I find this intriguing since on the Do side, the Come Odds are assumed not working on the come out roll. It appears that the Lay Odds are assumed working on the come out roll. Is this correct? And does that also mean that I should be paid my flat Don't Come as well as the Lay Odds if a 7 is rolled on the come out? I guess I'm just wondering if I have to specifically mention that my Lay Odds are working (I can't really think of a reason why I wouldn't have them working).
My next question is one for the Don't players. I have seen Don't players call no action when the point is either 6 or 8, or if their Don't Come best is a 6 or 8. I understand the math and number as to why this shouldn't be done. However, I'm just curious if the Don't players on this forum do call no action or not. Again, yes I know that mathematically you're better off leaving the bet and taking full odds. But does that silly superstition or other reasons ever creep into you and make you want to not take action on the 6 or 8?
Next question. I like to play the Hard 10. Yes, I know it's a high house-edge bet and stupid to make, but I enjoy it. I play a red on it, and when it hits, I throw another red on it. I've had it hit 4 times in a row doing this. Yes, it's rare. And plenty more times I lose on it, but it's just fun for me. It gives me that one little big win that adds excitement. Further, I usually play it as a 5 and 1 two-way, so it's also how I achieve my tipping of the dealers. My question is, if the point is 10, should I then maybe pick a different hard-way to play? (Let's just assume for the moment that I'm going to play one, and not get into why I shouldn't play it in the first place.) The reason I ask is because, since I'm rooting that the 10 NOT roll, then betting a hard 10 would seem contrary to that. On the other hand, the hard 10 does mean that I have that miniscule chance that if the 10 does roll, I might recoup some of my losses.
Final question. When playing the Don't, is there a good way to make dealer tips as part of your Don't betting and/or Lay Odds? I know in another thread, someone mentioned that when playing the Do side, it was a simple thing to add a few white chips to your odds, and if it hit, throw the whites to the dealers as their tip. I like this idea for playing the Do side, but is their an equivalent for the Don't side that people have done? If not, how do you Don't players usually do your tipping?
Sorry for being so long-winded.
April 4th, 2010 at 11:25:43 PM
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your odds stay on. on the comeout roll, players are typically rooting for a 7 so thats why they normally turn your odds off on any comebets on the comeout roll. but a 7 wins you a bet if you have a DC wager out there so the odds are normally turned on.
you survived the hard part trying to establish a point, dont give it up on some silly superstition. if you see someone waving off a 6 or 8, see if you can buy his bet instead.
as for tipping, give them an any craps bet on the comeout roll or tip something when youre leaving the table.
you survived the hard part trying to establish a point, dont give it up on some silly superstition. if you see someone waving off a 6 or 8, see if you can buy his bet instead.
as for tipping, give them an any craps bet on the comeout roll or tip something when youre leaving the table.
April 5th, 2010 at 5:10:31 AM
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I'm not a Don't player, but here's my feelings on two of your questions.
Having Don't money on a number, and a hard way on the same number does seem contradictory. Some may even classify it as hedging a bet. However, if it's typical for you to have a hard 10 bet, I say go ahead, even if the point is a 10. Sure, you can lose both, or win only one of them, so it does make sense to make it a hard 4 instead, but if you favor the 10, bet it! What you might consider is to remove the DP bet if the point is a 10. But then again, maybe not. Bottom line, whatever you do, do it all the time. Does that help at all?
Regarding a dealer tip on the Don't, do the opposite of what a dealer tip on the Do would do. I.E. Often a player would have $5+$1 on the line and $10+$1 behind it. If the number hit, does that casino pay $1 or $2 on the odds part if the point is 5,6,8,9? Use that as the basis for what you lay.
Having Don't money on a number, and a hard way on the same number does seem contradictory. Some may even classify it as hedging a bet. However, if it's typical for you to have a hard 10 bet, I say go ahead, even if the point is a 10. Sure, you can lose both, or win only one of them, so it does make sense to make it a hard 4 instead, but if you favor the 10, bet it! What you might consider is to remove the DP bet if the point is a 10. But then again, maybe not. Bottom line, whatever you do, do it all the time. Does that help at all?
Regarding a dealer tip on the Don't, do the opposite of what a dealer tip on the Do would do. I.E. Often a player would have $5+$1 on the line and $10+$1 behind it. If the number hit, does that casino pay $1 or $2 on the odds part if the point is 5,6,8,9? Use that as the basis for what you lay.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
April 5th, 2010 at 10:04:40 AM
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Quote: rudeboyoiif you see someone waving off a 6 or 8, see if you can buy his bet instead.
What exactly is this, and how do I do it?
Quote: DJTeddyBearRegarding a dealer tip on the Don't, do the opposite of what a dealer tip on the Do would do. I.E. Often a player would have $5+$1 on the line and $10+$1 behind it. If the number hit, does that casino pay $1 or $2 on the odds part if the point is 5,6,8,9? Use that as the basis for what you lay.
Yes, this is possible. But I was wondering about the dealer's tip being on the odds. For example, on the Do side, if I would normally pay $5 on the line, and $5 behind, then I could play $5 on the line, and $5+$1 behind. Whatever amount the $1 behind wins would go to the dealer. The only way I could think to do this on the Don't, is if I play $5 on the Don't, and $10+$2 behind (like on a 4 or 10), but the idea of risking $2 so the dealers get $3 doesn't appeal to me.
April 5th, 2010 at 10:06:44 AM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearBottom line, whatever you do, do it all the time. Does that help at all?
Yes, it does. The hard 10 is such a silly bet, but I do it all the time. Enough that the dealers know me for it, and always make sure my hard 10 is up. (I'm sure it helps that I'm betting for them as well.)
I once played craps with an older lady who said she always played $1 on the hard 10, and parleyed the win. If it hit the third time, she took the money and put it aside for her grandson. This is not why I play the hard 10, but I did think it was an interesting story.
April 5th, 2010 at 10:27:02 AM
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Quote: konceptumI have seen Don't players call no action when the point is either 6 or 8.
>I'm just curious if the Don't players on this forum do call no action or not.
I'm sure that most of the people on this forum know the math and therefore do not voluntarily give up a bet just after having survived the major hurdle. I did it a few times one day when 6and8 were showing up ALL the time.
>mathematically you're better off leaving the bet and taking full odds.
No. Mathematically you're better off leaving the bet. Laying full odds is still optional and if you are truly convinced that 6and8 are likely to roll, why lay the odds on it?
Note: I've never had some fellow player offer to buy my bet... if I ever do have that happen to me, I'll certainly lose my temper but good!
April 5th, 2010 at 3:46:43 PM
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Quote: konceptum
Final question. When playing the Don't, is there a good way to make dealer tips as part of your Don't betting and/or Lay Odds? I know in another thread, someone mentioned that when playing the Do side, it was a simple thing to add a few white chips to your odds, and if it hit, throw the whites to the dealers as their tip. I like this idea for playing the Do side, but is their an equivalent for the Don't side that people have done? If not, how do you Don't players usually do your tipping?
Sorry for being so long-winded.
I like to make a table min. field bet for the dealers on my come-out. You're both rooting for the same numbers. Hits more often than the any craps, too.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
April 7th, 2010 at 3:48:56 PM
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Quote: konceptum
I have a couple of technical questions on playing the Don't that I hope people can help me with. Actually, I guess I know that you can help me with it, hence the reason I ask it here. :) So, if I make one or two Don't Come bets, and lay odds on those, and then the point is rolled, hence losing my Don't Pass bet, my lay odds still remain on the Don't Come. I noticed that if one of those numbers is rolled, they are quick to pick up that Don't Come and Lay Odds as a loss to the player. I find this intriguing since on the Do side, the Come Odds are assumed not working on the come out roll. It appears that the Lay Odds are assumed working on the come out roll. Is this correct? And does that also mean that I should be paid my flat Don't Come as well as the Lay Odds if a 7 is rolled on the come out? I guess I'm just wondering if I have to specifically mention that my Lay Odds are working (I can't really think of a reason why I wouldn't have them working).
Come odds don't work by default on the pass comeout; you can call them on, and I always did.
Don't come odds work by default; you can call them off. Assuming you don't call them off, you should be paid both the flat and the short end of the odds when you have one or more DC bets behind numbers on the shooter's comeout seven.
Quote: konceptum
Next question. I like to play the Hard 10. Yes, I know it's a high house-edge bet and stupid to make, but I enjoy it. I play a red on it, and when it hits, I throw another red on it. I've had it hit 4 times in a row doing this. Yes, it's rare. And plenty more times I lose on it, but it's just fun for me. It gives me that one little big win that adds excitement. Further, I usually play it as a 5 and 1 two-way, so it's also how I achieve my tipping of the dealers. My question is, if the point is 10, should I then maybe pick a different hard-way to play? (Let's just assume for the moment that I'm going to play one, and not get into why I shouldn't play it in the first place.) The reason I ask is because, since I'm rooting that the 10 NOT roll, then betting a hard 10 would seem contrary to that. On the other hand, the hard 10 does mean that I have that miniscule chance that if the 10 does roll, I might recoup some of my losses.
It is a partial hedge. If the shooter rolls a hard ten, you lose your DP/DC with the odds, but you win the hard 10. OTOH, if he/she rolls an easy 10, you lose the whole thing. Keep in mind you're paying the HA on both bets (not the odds, of course), regardless of the offset. Also, it cuts the variance, reducing your win on the 7 and reducing your loss on the hard 10.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Cheers,
Alan Shank
"How's that for a squabble, Pugh?" Peter Boyle as Mister Moon in "Yellowbeard"
April 7th, 2010 at 11:10:05 PM
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Quote: goatcabinCome odds don't work by default on the pass comeout; you can call them on, and I always did.
Don't come odds work by default; you can call them off. Assuming you don't call them off, you should be paid both the flat and the short end of the odds when you have one or more DC bets behind numbers on the shooter's comeout seven.
That makes sense. I guess I get confused because the online craps player at Bodog doesn't pay the odds on comeout rolls.
I really wish there was an online craps game that was more true-to-form vis-a-vis the way casinos play the game.
April 7th, 2010 at 11:20:15 PM
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try the wizard's free craps game. its pretty consistent with the way a live game typically runs. 3x4x5x odds. odds and place bets are off on the comeout roll with odds in the back working.
April 8th, 2010 at 12:50:09 AM
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The Wizard's game suffers from the same problems as Bodog's. When I say that it doesn't mimic a true casino experience, one thing I'm mainly talking about is how the payouts are done.
For example, if you're in the casino and place $6 on the 6, and a 6 is rolled, the dealer will push you $7. However, with both of these online craps games, the computer pushes you the $7 and your original $6. I then have to put the $6 place bet back out on the 6. (Or push rebet.)
I know it's a small thing, but at the same time, it doesn't mimic the casino experience. And, if you're trying various strategies, ideas, systems, what have you, and trying to remember when to press, when not to press, when to take down bets, when to turn them off, etc, etc, sometimes those little things make a difference.
Also, it would be nice if a computer craps game did allow you to have place bets working on the come out roll, or odds working on the come out roll, so that you could indicate if you wanted your bets working or not.
For example, if you're in the casino and place $6 on the 6, and a 6 is rolled, the dealer will push you $7. However, with both of these online craps games, the computer pushes you the $7 and your original $6. I then have to put the $6 place bet back out on the 6. (Or push rebet.)
I know it's a small thing, but at the same time, it doesn't mimic the casino experience. And, if you're trying various strategies, ideas, systems, what have you, and trying to remember when to press, when not to press, when to take down bets, when to turn them off, etc, etc, sometimes those little things make a difference.
Also, it would be nice if a computer craps game did allow you to have place bets working on the come out roll, or odds working on the come out roll, so that you could indicate if you wanted your bets working or not.
April 8th, 2010 at 6:59:16 PM
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Quote: FleaStiff
Note: I've never had some fellow player offer to buy my bet... if I ever do have that happen to me, I'll certainly lose my temper but good!
I'm curious -- why would it make you angry if another player offered to buy a bet from you that you thought would lose?
April 8th, 2010 at 7:31:08 PM
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I often play the don'ts and I play quietly so as not to attract attention and spoil other people's fun.
I was in Las Vegas in mid-March and played craps at Casino Royale. I bet the don'ts and had won three times in a row as the three previous shooters all 7-out on their first point. On the third 7-out, I tipped the dealers $5 and the dealer turned around and said we're joining you and put the bet on the don't pass along side my bet. I wanted it to go to the tip box, but they insisted on making the bet. The shooter made their point immediately after the dealers joined me on the don't pass. The dealer turned to the do players and said, "See what I have to do for you people to win!". Everyone had a good chuckle.
I left that session ahead and again tipped the dealers at the end and this time I insisted it go to the box.
I was in Las Vegas in mid-March and played craps at Casino Royale. I bet the don'ts and had won three times in a row as the three previous shooters all 7-out on their first point. On the third 7-out, I tipped the dealers $5 and the dealer turned around and said we're joining you and put the bet on the don't pass along side my bet. I wanted it to go to the tip box, but they insisted on making the bet. The shooter made their point immediately after the dealers joined me on the don't pass. The dealer turned to the do players and said, "See what I have to do for you people to win!". Everyone had a good chuckle.
I left that session ahead and again tipped the dealers at the end and this time I insisted it go to the box.
