Interblock Organic Roulette

I'm sure you guys have seen the Interblock Organic Roulette machines around. For those who haven't, it's essentially a completely automated roulette wheel under a bubble. All betting is done with a touch screen interface. All payouts are in the form of credits (not unlike Slots). These wheels are completely unmanned (no dealer).

How are these wheels typically set up in terms of minimum bets? Can you bet lower stakes than at a real roulette table? I typically avoid roulette due to the high vig, but if the min bet is low, it could be a fun way to kill some time.

I know here in Colorado, the minimum on those machines is usually $3. I am hoping someone here has the limits in vegas, and the location of those machines. I love playing on those machines, and with a higher maximum, I am hoping I can win a few bucks. Anyone have a list of places they have the machines? and hopefully the stakes as well?

Ok so heres what I found. I was staying at the Monte Carlo last weekend, and found that the Monte Carlo had 2 of the machines. Both had a $3 min, $1000 max. They had limits on certain bets. They would allow up to $250 any way to a number on inside bets, and up to $500 on any outside bet. You can pretty easily get around them by betting other ways like adding additional bets on the inside to make a hit a bit bigger. They had at least one in New York new York as well, same limits.

Is interBlock violating New Jersey gaming laws with their new "Low Volatility" feature that voids legitimate electronic bets that are otherwise allowed on regular roulette table games?

In 2015, interBlock offered this new technology for their Organic Roulette:

Quote:

SIMULTANEOUS BET PREVENTION TECHNOLOGY

This feature prevents wagers of equivalent value on opposite bets, such as Red/Black, Even/Odd, 1-18/19-36, Player/Banker, etc. The player will not be able to place the wager and the message “Bets are not valid” will be displayed. The player must remove or change this bet in order to continue the game.

Link for your browser: http://www.interblockgaming.com/product/automated/automated-roulette/

Even when you are just betting a little more than 65% of the numbers, the game will not allow the bets. No where is this "Bets are not valid" disclosed until after you make the bet and have no time to adjust your bets to whatever is allowed, which is also unknown. Thus, no disclosure as required below:

New Jersey Gaming Laws provide on page 198:

"(g) A slot machine game that requires skilled strategy choices, such as video poker,
shall:
1. Have its theoretical RTP calculated based upon the player exercising
optimal strategy during game play;
2. Disclose optimal strategy to achieve the highest theoretical RTP; or
3. Provide mathematically sufficient information for the patron to derive
optimal strategy in order to achieve the highest theoretical RTP.

(h) When a slot machine offers a play which relies on the knowledge of a patron,
such as a trivia challenge, or their physical dexterity, such as a game utilizing a joystick, the
overall payout percentage shall be calculated based on the play of the least knowledgeable or
skilled patron.

(i) When a slot machine offers a play which permits a patron to risk an award or
make a subsequent wager as an extension of a game outcome, the slot machine shall:
1. Only allow the patron to risk an award if the award can be increased as a
result of continued play; and
2. Disclose the optimal strategy or provide mathematically sufficient
information for the patron to derive optimal strategy if the choice affects
the theoretical RTP of the slot machine.

Link for your browser: http://www.nj.gov/oag/ge/docs/Regulations/CHAPTER69E.pdf

Furthermore, as stated on page 239, interBlock Organic roulette violates the spirit of Technical Standards (b)2. and 3. below::

13:69E-1.28P Technical standards for electronic table games
(a) An electronic table game means all hardware and software used to automate all
or part of a table game which has been previously approved by the Division.
(b) Electronic table games shall:
1. Be identical in layout and equipment used to play its corresponding
authorized non-electronic table game including when applicable,
wagering areas, cards, dice, or tiles;
2. Be designed to achieve a theoretical payback as provided in the approved
rules for each game offered; and
3. Utilize a method to ensure each game outcome is random in accordance
with Division rules for a random number generator (RNG), when
applicable.

I am not sure if Nevada has similar gaming laws to New Jersey, maybe somewhere near Nevada Gaming Control Board regulation 14.040.2(b)?

Quote: Bohemian

Is interBlock violating New Jersey gaming laws with their new "Low Volatility" feature that voids legitimate electronic bets that are otherwise allowed on regular roulette table games?

> Quote:

SIMULTANEOUS BET PREVENTION TECHNOLOGY

This feature prevents wagers of equivalent value on opposite bets, such as Red/Black, Even/Odd, 1-18/19-36, Player/Banker, etc. The player will not be able to place the wager and the message “Bets are not valid” will be displayed. The player must remove or change this bet in order to continue the game.

>>>

How immensely stupid! This prevents hedging [unless I am very much mistaken], and hedging would decrease volatility [which is what the player instinctively is trying to do, duh!] ... not increase it

Now, I will say 'no hedging allowed' increases volatility [variance] which is good for the player, assuming the player gets it. On the other hand, it can be a legitimate thing, to want lower variance. Free country.

But I think the game maker may be responding to requests of some casino management, which amazingly can think that hedging is bad for the house!

I have no opinion about whether law is violated.

odiousgambit,

You are right it prevents hedging. It would be like not allowing a craps check along with a Pass Line bet, but even worse as it does not allow nearly 65% of the numbers to be covered. Sadly, we reported this to a State Gaming Commission agent and he said you cannot make bets to cancel out each other. WTF, the Gaming agent had no clue that the unallowed bets left over 30% of the numbers exposed. This is actually more sad than the program being altered at the casinos request as you suggested and I concur.

Like this would ever really stop someone from hedging, lol.

The more the casinos think they have it figured out and more complacent, the easier marks they become.

I think It's about comps.

It's probably easier to disallow this bad bet than it is to allow the bet and not give slot points.

Let them do it. It's actually a good thing, if now suddenly they think it's AP proof and start allowing more eligible stuff.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I think It's about comps.

It's probably easier to disallow this bad bet than it is to allow the bet and not give slot points.

They want people to gamble and not hedge. Someone forced to gamble is more likely to go on tilt and chase losses as opposed to someone who can determine exactly what the final results are. It's also a deterrent to someone who's willing to play for safe comps, but they wouldn't be willing to risk thousands just to eat for free. IE someone would be willing to bet red/black hedge green for thousands on each side if the comps well exceeded the loss.
But they wouldn't be willing to flip a coin with the possibility of losing or winning 5k just for some food comps.

Quote: AxelWolf

They want people to gamble and not hedge. Someone forced to gamble is more likely to go on tilt and chase losses as opposed to someone who can determine exactly what the final results are. ...

Interesting. Never thought about this angle.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I think It's about comps.

It's probably easier to disallow this bad bet than it is to allow the bet and not give slot points.

It's not about Comps, if it was about Comps the casino can just disallow comps on these machines like several of the MGM properties already do. Even with Comps turned off, if you bet just over 65% of the possible outcomes, the machine locks up with a message:

Quote:

Bets are not valid - low volatility!

It's all about risk and the casinos not wanting to be in the gambling business IMO. in any case, I believe the company interBlock, at the casinos direction, has violated several state gaming laws by doing so ?

Quote: AxelWolf

They want people to gamble and not hedge. Someone forced to gamble is more likely to go on tilt and chase losses as opposed to someone who can determine exactly what the final results are.

AxelWolf, I agree. It's a double standard, the casinos want you to gamble, but they do not want to gamble or risk high volatility bets.

Quote: Bohemian

I in any case, I believe the company interBlock, at the casinos direction, has violated several state gaming laws by doing so ?

Which laws or regulations are being violated?

Quote: DRich

Which laws or regulations are being violated?

See the 1st page of this thread for a link to full text of the gaming regs; however, consider this:

-- Theoretical payback is not identical nor allowed per the rules of the non-electronic table game:

(b) Electronic table games shall:
1. Be identical in layout and equipment used to play its corresponding
authorized non-electronic table game including when applicable,
wagering areas, cards, dice, or tiles;
2. Be designed to achieve a theoretical payback as provided in the approved
rules for each game offered;

-- Optimal strategy is not allowed:

(g) A slot machine game that requires skilled strategy choices, such as video poker,
shall:
1. Have its theoretical RTP calculated based upon the player exercising
optimal strategy during game play;

-- No Disclosure or mathematically sufficient
information is made:

2. Disclose optimal strategy to achieve the highest theoretical RTP; or
3. Provide mathematically sufficient information for the patron to derive
optimal strategy in order to achieve the highest theoretical RTP.

(i) When a slot machine offers a play which permits a patron to risk an award or
make a subsequent wager as an extension of a game outcome, the slot machine shall:
1. Only allow the patron to risk an award if the award can be increased as a
result of continued play; and
2. Disclose the optimal strategy or provide mathematically sufficient
information for the patron to derive optimal strategy if the choice affects
the theoretical RTP of the slot machine.

IMHO
a player who wagers Red and Black the same roll with same amount on each side will lose each time zero shows up (HE)
why should someone do this? IMO because of the comps
and why would casino not allow this kind of bet? because of the comps

Quote: seven

IMHO
a player who wagers Red and Black the same roll with same amount on each side will lose each time zero shows up (HE)
why should someone do this? IMO because of the comps
and why would casino not allow this kind of bet? because of the comps

You can cover green to and not risk it and just give up you're EV without the variance IE spiking green. There's been a few situations where playing roulette was profitable with larger bets, we discussed various options including hedging off and covering green.
Since the casino might notice that we decided to only hedge R/B/G during busy times and if it would go unnoticed. We ran bad sometimes because sure enough green would come in on the first spin wiping out 1k +, then of course murphy's law and F-ing green ....back to back.


Either way the casino will give out the same amount of comps if someone is hedging R/B/G/E/O etc etc or not..
Actually you're probably better off negotiating a comp with a host or pitboss if you happen to lose and or win big as opposed to breaking even or close.

Quote: seven

IMHO
a player who wagers Red and Black the same roll with same amount on each side will lose each time zero shows up (HE)
why should someone do this? IMO because of the comps
and why would casino not allow this kind of bet? because of the comps

Seven, I understand your question, however that has nothing to do with the issue. Playing Black and Red covers roughly 95% of a double Zero wheel. interBlock and the casinos are not allowing bets that cover less than 70% of the wheel.

This interBlock software change increase the HE, yet the Wizard has not written anything about the HE being higher on these machines. I have been told the Wizard is willing to turn his back on any land casinos increasing HA and refuses to add any land casinos to his Blacklist?

Quote: Wizard

No white- or blacklist of land casinos from me. I certainly like some more than others but they are all a shade of grey.

Quote: Bohemian

Seven, I understand your question, however that has nothing to do with the issue. Playing Black and Red covers roughly 95% of a double Zero wheel. interBlock and the casinos are not allowing bets that cover less than 70% of the wheel.

This interBlock software change increase the HE, yet the Wizard has not written anything about the HE being higher on these machines. I have been told the Wizard is willing to turn his back on any land casinos increasing HA and refuses to add any land casinos to his Blacklist?

Edited by BBB to remove a quote from me addressing someone and something else in a different thread from a long time ago, to claim "hogwash" against the Wizard. I have not commented on this thread, and will not be. This is dishonest manipulation of the conversation and misrepresents me. Consider this a Warning leading to suspension if it happens again ( the misquoting, whether me or another member).

Quote: Bohemian

interBlock and the casinos are not allowing bets that cover less than 70% of the wheel.

WHAT??? Surely you mean they are not allowing bets that cover MORE than 70% of the wheel. They WANT volatile bets. They DON'T WANT low volatility bets. The exact opposite of what you said.

The main reason for implementing this feature is to stop players either betting through for comps or using the machine for some sort of money laundering mischief, or for turning bonus funds into cash funds without risk.

Casinos want you to risk and are happy to see you take long odds bets. That way you are more likely to overbet your bankroll and bust out or to feed back and lose any winnings quickly and easily.

Quote:

This interBlock software change increase the HE,

How Does it? Prove it. . . . It doesn't!

Quote:

I have been told the Wizard is willing to turn his back on any land casinos increasing HA and refuses to add any land casinos to his Blacklist?

Where's your evidence for that accusation? In any case HA is not being increased by this software feature.

Quote: Bohemian

See the 1st page of this thread for a link to full text of the gaming regs; however, consider this:

-- Theoretical payback is not identical nor allowed per the rules of the non-electronic table game:

Theoretical payback is identical. Casino can decline any bet on a non-electronic roulette, so no difference there.

Here's a part of the terms and conditions of my local Genting casino

Quote:

We reserve the right to refuse or limit the whole or part of any wager for any reason at our discretion.

Quote:

-- Optimal strategy is not allowed:

(g) A slot machine game that requires skilled strategy choices, such as video poker,
shall:

There is no optimal strategy. there are no skilled strategy choices. Therefore this clause doesn't apply.

Quote:

-- No Disclosure or mathematically sufficient information is made:

2. Disclose optimal strategy to achieve the highest theoretical RTP; or
3. Provide mathematically sufficient information for the patron to derive
optimal strategy in order to achieve the highest theoretical RTP.

There's still no such thing as optimal strategy with roulette. Nothing the player or casino does will impact the average RTP. Therefore this clause does not apply.

The machine is simply declining certain wagers. It's not doing the casino any favours to decline action. Tell me how that is different to any live game. except for it's stupidity.

Quote: Bohemian

This interBlock software change increase the HE, yet the Wizard has not written anything about the HE being higher on these machines.

the house edge on double zero roulette is 2/38=5.263157894%
It's 5.263157894% if you place one dollar on red number one paying 35:1

It's 5.263157894% if you place one hundred dollars on red and one hundred dollars on black and one hundred dollars on 0 and ... anything you like on, well, anything.

It's 5.263157894% on any combination of bets that the casino choose to accept.

Quote: Bohemian

It's not about Comps

It's absolutely about comps. Here is the description of what, how, and WHY, straight from the horse's mouth.
http://www.interblockgaming.com/interblock-unveils-landmark-simultaneous-bet-prevention-technology/

Quote: horse's mouth

“Some players try to run up club points and/or free play credits without winning or risking losing, simply by placing simultaneous bets that balance each other out. Interblock’s innovative Simultaneous Bet Prevention Technology protects operators by preventing this from happening,” said John Connelly, Interblock’s Global CEO.

deleted

Are interblock roulette machines available in any online casino?