jake0508
jake0508
Joined: Jan 10, 2012
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March 29th, 2013 at 9:15:36 AM permalink
Was in Showboat last month and they had a table of EZ. Good luck with it Dan.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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March 29th, 2013 at 9:43:10 AM permalink
Quote: rdw4potus

Most players really don't care what factors the casino is considering, and are instead focused on the impact on themselves. Player banking is better for the player. Disallowing it is better for the house. Similarly, games that allow player banking are better for the player, and games that don't allow banking are better for the house. EZ PGP tables are more profitable than non-EZ PGP tables, and that profit by definition comes from a transfer of funds from the player to the house. As a player, it seems awfully reasonable to want that transfer to happen as slowly as possible.......




Understood.
...with more casinos, more competition, more expenses, etc., operators have to squeeze every cent of profit out of every table-minute that they can.
I know for a fact that we've knocked out some competing Pai Gow tables that were a couple of percentage points lower in terms of table hold that had banking. You get a table full of players that are cross-banking and swaping money between each other, with the table making 75 cents or $1.25 per round in quarters, that game will eventually be shown the door, sooner rather than later.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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March 29th, 2013 at 9:53:43 AM permalink
Quote: rdw4potus

Do you happen to have any data on the ways that the house way has actually been affected as a result of these installs? Several of the EZ PGP tables I've been on have had a little LCD screen so the dealer can "cheat" and look at how their hands should be set. I know that's not EZ PGP's "fault" - any new table would likely have this feature - but it does lend itself to a stronger possible house way since memorization is less important. Have any houses gone that route when installing EZ PGP?



Very few houses have that "dealer assist" feature (and it's a SHFL product); 99% of casino houses have adequate and competent staff for Pai Gow poker dealing.

The size and complexity of the house way that can be loaded is limited; also, casino houses aren't going to install a six-page long tournament-player level strategy into the device. Also, exceptional hand setting plays may get some attention. You see a dealer keep 7's and 2's together with a KQ top, and two hands later you see the dealer split 7's and 2's with a K-9, you know something is up.

Even with the most advanced house way, the most you can get from perfect strategy play over a standard and "decent" house way is maybe 1/5th or 1/4 of a percent.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
hook3670
hook3670
Joined: May 17, 2011
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March 29th, 2013 at 11:08:44 AM permalink
Dan, my question is why the dramatically different bonus paytable? I think, it was a month since I played, the highest payout was 2000-1 and the other payouts were different like a-5 natural straight with A-K kicker. Now I realize hitting these is ridiculous odds but my wife twice was one card away from a natural 7 card straight flush. The sad part was one of the times it broke right at the 4 card mark and didn't even get a 5 card straight flush!
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
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March 29th, 2013 at 12:00:13 PM permalink
Quote: hook3670

Dan, my question is why the dramatically different bonus paytable? I think, it was a month since I played, the highest payout was 2000-1 and the other payouts were different like a-5 natural straight with A-K kicker. Now I realize hitting these is ridiculous odds but my wife twice was one card away from a natural 7 card straight flush. The sad part was one of the times it broke right at the 4 card mark and didn't even get a 5 card straight flush!



The earliest version of EZ Pai Gow had multiple awards of 2000:1, instead of a single top award of 8000:1 (the 7 card natural straight flush), for the same house edge. Part of it was to differentiate the earlier version from other Pai Gow brands.

Another reason was that with the 8000:1 table, the top award would either never hit, or if it did hit, would be for an amount that some smaller properties would find unacceptable.

Think of the 2000:1 pay table as the "small property pay table," and the standard 8000:1 pay table as the large operator pay table.

In Atlantic City, the 2000:1 pay table is the only available paytable at this time. In Las Vegas, most properties (Cannery, Stations) like the 8000:1 pay table. What ever the customer requests and orders, the customer gets.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
bw
bw
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March 29th, 2013 at 12:05:36 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

The earliest version of EZ Pai Gow had multiple awards of 2000:1, instead of a single top award of 8000:1 (the 7 card natural straight flush), for the same house edge. Part of it was to differentiate the earlier version from other Pai Gow brands.

Another reason was that with the 8000:1 table, the top award would either never hit, or if it did hit, would be for an amount that some smaller properties would find unacceptable.

Think of the 2000:1 pay table as the "small property pay table," and the standard 8000:1 pay table as the large operator pay table.

In Atlantic City, some operators like the 2000:1 pay table. In Las Vegas, most properties (Cannery, Stations) like the 8000:1 pay table. What ever the customer requests and orders, the customer gets.



Question for Dan, in your years of dealing have you seen or dealt a natural 7 card straight flush?
TheBigPaybak
TheBigPaybak
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March 29th, 2013 at 12:16:58 PM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

Player banking is only important for you, Sodawater - and so you really should be playing player-banked Pai Gow Poker in Card rooms, which is GREAT action - instead of putting demands on casino operators and their pit operations as to how THEY should run their pits. Your business won't be missed by anyone in the casino pit, although you may be a better fit in a player-banked card room.



First of all, I will say that I like the idea of EZ Pai Gow and will try it out if it appears at a casino I play at. Pai Gow Poker is probably my favorite casino game and I generally play for high stakes.

With all of that said, I think it's a mistake for casinos to not have bankable Pai Gow Poker. Frankly with the proliferation of casinos, I have a choice as to where I can play, and for casinos that don't offer bankable Pai Gow Poker, I won't play there with any degree of significance. The very minute though, that operators blindly assume that they can start taking away rules that make us -EV players happy, is the minute they'll start to have a problem. It may not manifest itself right away, but when you start taking the attitude that "our business won't be missed" for this or that reason, you're losing site of what it takes to make a good customer happy. Competition has a wonderful way of offering choice these days, and those operators that get a little too greedy will likely pay for their choices in the end.
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
Paradigm
Paradigm
Joined: Feb 24, 2011
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March 29th, 2013 at 1:36:43 PM permalink
Quote: sodawater

as you said -- most of the player base is too uneducated to understand how bad the new version of the game is.


Ahhhh.....that isn't what I said!

I said that most players don't care about banking illustrated by the fact that many do not bank given the opportunity to do so and they prefer to play more hands per hour and not have to deal with commissions on every winning hand.

Just because you feel passionate about banking and the lower edge available if a player has the opportunity and can bank every other hand, does not make it important to the rest of the gaming public. If some portion of them like the new version of the game for the faster play and no-commission, so be it. And I guess they do as casinos continue to add the game.

News flash......what is important to you in a casino game is not important to everyone else!
RaleighCraps
RaleighCraps
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March 29th, 2013 at 1:49:29 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

I know of one place that allows the player and dealer to alternate banking instead of the opportunity going from player to player around the table as long as noone else wants to bank. So theoretically even on a full table, you can bank every other hand so long as nobody else wants it. I don't know if it helps much, but it is out there.



Harrah's Grand and Beau Rivage in Biloxi both allow banking every other hand, even on a full table. If no one else wants to player bank it just comes right back to you again. The stupid J high PAI GOW I got cost me a little over $300 last time I banked.
Always borrow money from a pessimist; They don't expect to get paid back ! Be yourself and speak your thoughts. Those who matter won't mind, and those that mind, don't matter!
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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March 29th, 2013 at 1:55:41 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!

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