Paradigm
Paradigm
Joined: Feb 24, 2011
  • Threads: 42
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December 12th, 2012 at 11:32:30 AM permalink
Wonder what the potential is to decrease the advantage on the main bet, either through even money BJ or limiting doubles, etc., so that you could get a pair to pay even money on the Poker Bet. I think that is the killer feature there. Players are used to getting paid on a pair in a 3CP Bonus type wager.

You could even pull out the Flush+Pair payout from the Poker Table and adjust the payouts such that you get the required edge, but a higher Pay/Win rate. Pushes don't count in a hit rate in my opinion.

Out of curiosity, what is the win/push/lose distribution on the UTH Blind Bet (Charles or Mips) or on the Super Bonus in Crazy 4 (I think this one will be most similar to PC21 Poker Bet)?

The concept has potential, I just think it needs some tweaking. Buzz is right, players aren't going to think they have that much of an advantage on the two BJ hands, but they are going to recognize the Poker Bet has a way worse pay table than Pair Plus in TCP and they likely think that is a high edge side bet as it is.

If you can get a more palatable trade off in the Poker Bet pay table, you have a much better chance of a positive player experience when players first try out the game.

By the way developers are nice folks, I met them briefly at Raving and wish them well.
Buzzard
Buzzard
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
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December 12th, 2012 at 11:42:02 AM permalink
I agree. But I had high hopes for SWITCH too. Let's hope this game can duck the bullet as far as table minimums go.

The learning curve is not steep, but only if players play the game. Putting out $20 a hand on a new game seemed to kill SWITCH, at least in Colorado.

Putting out $30 or $45 to play a new game ...... BRUTAL

A player can easily lose over $100 on the first 2 hands. The 25% on the mandatory bet is set. But seeing how average player does
"basic strategy" and how they will set hands, who knows how much under 11% on the BJ hand..

Players who play 2 hands like when they break even, lose one and win one. Gives them a good feeling when first hand is a 20 and
then hit the stiff second hand. But in this game if you split on both hands, 7 out of 10 hands, you will lose the mandatory bet.

Hope this is recognized as constructive criticism. Think it a kewl game, but will have to overcome some steep obstacles to be a hit !
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
CRMousseau
CRMousseau
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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December 12th, 2012 at 7:21:23 PM permalink
Distribution for Blind in UTH, optimal strategy:
Push (i.e. win with less than a straight, or tie): 41.1%
Win: 8.7%
Loss: 50.2%

Crazy 4 poker
Push: 37.3%
Win: 10.7%
Loss: 52.0%

If you aren't counting pushes as hits, then PC21's sidebet fits right in.

Paying one pair (~19.5%) just isn't feasible, even if you merge the pair + flush (~1% @ 5:1) into it, you are still having to make up 15% in the main game. You're looking at every massive disadvantage under the sun and a crappy blackjack game

The developer's goal was to make the blackjack half of the game stand out as being superior, which meant no short pays on naturals or obvious pro-house rules. Is there any way other way to go here? I don't see it.
Buzzard
Buzzard
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
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December 12th, 2012 at 7:44:28 PM permalink
" The developer's goal was to make the blackjack half of the game stand out as being superior, which meant no short pays on naturals or obvious pro-house rules. Is there any way other way to go here? I don't see it. "

An admirable goal, but if house wants a H17 Players Choice 21 , that is what they will get. PERIOD. Greg knows that.

Switch could not say NO to Casino Royale 6/5 Free Bet.

And full pay 6 deck H17 BJ not that hard to find. ( especially at $25 ) Once players are attracting to a game, the house too often tightens up the pay schedule. Even with Streak, Stacy Perry had to take the pay schedule AC wanted.

And with the 2 games you mention, they have an effective payout higher than 3/2 on the main bet. And you only get 3/2 once every 21 hands.

But I do like the game. I would play at $5, but on weekends I just know it will be $10 minimum, and my bankroll might handle that barely, but at $15 FORGEDDABOUTIT.
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
miplet
miplet
Joined: Dec 1, 2009
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December 12th, 2012 at 7:45:30 PM permalink
You could pay 1:1 on 8s or better and lose withe 7s or less, but I don't know if players would like that better ( or if it makes it countable).
“Man Babes” #AxelFabulous
Buzzard
Buzzard
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
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December 12th, 2012 at 7:51:14 PM permalink
My biggest concern is that table games manager will make this game $10 or $15 minimum, especially on weekends, not factoring in the player will be betting $30-$45 per hand to play a new game.
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
miplet
miplet
Joined: Dec 1, 2009
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December 12th, 2012 at 7:56:13 PM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

My biggest concern is that table games manager will make this game $10 or $15 minimum, especially on weekends, not factoring in the player will be betting $30-$45 per hand to play a new game.


:) I guess I'm spoiled with $2 and $3 min UTH games around here.
“Man Babes” #AxelFabulous
Buzzard
Buzzard
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
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December 12th, 2012 at 7:57:30 PM permalink
Does that mean even at $10 minimum you won't be in que for players choice 21 ?
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
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December 12th, 2012 at 8:38:45 PM permalink
Quote: miplet

:) I guess I'm spoiled with $2 and $3 min UTH games around here.



What? Where is, "Around here," I want to go, "Around here!"
Vultures can't be choosers.
miplet
miplet
Joined: Dec 1, 2009
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December 12th, 2012 at 8:47:52 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

What? Where is, "Around here," I want to go, "Around here!"


Crazy moose casino (actualy just a card room) which is just down the street where I live in Mountlake Terrace,WA has a $3 min all the time. Angel of the Winds, a tribal casino 35 miles north has a $2 game in the morning and $3 the rest of the time.
“Man Babes” #AxelFabulous

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