Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
• Posts: 2555
June 1st, 2017 at 9:36:01 PM permalink
Quote: Romes

I disagree. If the board is J-J-6-6-2 and I have 10-7, the dealer cards are unseen yet I need to make a decision based on them. I most certainly have outs to win if the dealer has 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9. Those are my "win outs" remaining in all of the unseen cards (including the dealers hand). Outs in poker mostly refer to the community because the other player is not playing his hand blind. Here, the dealer is blind, so his cards are "random" until seen, just like the community cards. Similar to flipping over another community card to give me a winning hand, the dealer can flip over "winning cards" (my win outs here) to give me the winning hand all the same.

You can call it what you want, but you are mis-using the poker term "outs". It's a standard term and definition. You will just confuse people if you try using it different.

ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Commish
Joined: Jan 5, 2013
• Posts: 23
August 23rd, 2017 at 3:13:30 PM permalink
Nice post. I agree with all except for number 10. If you are holding 2 small cards to a flush you should not bet 2x. You can only gain one unit since you would have bet on the river if you hit the flush. If you do not hit the flush you could fold and save 2 units. This does not apply if you had a high card since you would stay on the river anyhow.
98Clubs
Joined: Jun 3, 2010
• Posts: 1716
August 24th, 2017 at 7:27:08 PM permalink
This is simply the less than 21 out rule.
JJ662/10-7 is a 1x raise even with 3-flush on board.
Counting the cards that beat you is the meaning of the 21-out rule.
By this figuring, even a 9 plays.

There really is no "simple strategy" on the 2x raise... its both board and pocket dependent, with the river-pair yet to come. Thats where most playing errors originate for those who follow the simple strategies for 1x and 4x.
About all I can offer thats simple and helps a small bit is on the 1x raise with a "scary board"...

1.) open ended straight or 4-flush on board... raise pair of 5's or better, include pair of 4's or 3's if not bottom pair.
2.) BOTH open-ended straight and 4-flush... raise the middle board pair or better. (example: 4c-5c-Qc-6h-7c board: your pocket 10s-6d = raise... but 10s-5d pocket is a fold. The 6's are middle board rank, two are higher: two are lower)

4-Flush on flop for a 2x bet... yes if holding Q (suited flop) or Q-high (2 on board and 2 in pocket).

Regards
98
Recent epitaph: Found dead by a Pokemon Go Player