How Many Come Bets is Too Many?

Quote: derik999

Wouldn't you be better off placing the numbers instead of wasting a roll to get your come bet up there?

I think it depends on your criteria for what is "better off."

If you measure "better off" strictly by the HA on the bets you are making, then I would say, "No." The HA for passline and come bets with 3/4/5 times odds is 0.374%. The HA on place bets ranges from 1.52% to 6.67%, although you can reduce that by buying the numbers.

Take a look at the results of simulating different strategies that Alan has posted on this thread. You can see the differences between placing numbers and making come bets, and decide which guy you want to be.

Quote: derik999

Wouldn't you be better off placing the numbers instead of wasting a roll to get your come bet up there?

That was my thought too. I knew I was giving up a bit in HA doing that, but I figured the number of times a come bet gets put up but not hit, would offset the HA a bit on the place bets. But goatcabin's WinCraps simulation shows otherwise.

The come bet protects you against big red. So, if a seven is rolled, my come bet wins while all of the place bets lose. That's pretty much the simplest explanation I can think of.

Quote: RaleighCraps

That was my thought too. I knew I was giving up a bit in HA doing that, but I figured the number of times a come bet gets put up but not hit, would offset the HA a bit on the place bets. But goatcabin's WinCraps simulation shows otherwise.

No interaction between bets changes any bet's HA. They may affect the variance, which is what hedging is all about - reducing variance.
Cheers,
Alan Shank

Quote: RaleighCraps

That was my thought too. I knew I was giving up a bit in HA doing that, but I figured the number of times a come bet gets put up but not hit, would offset the HA a bit on the place bets. But goatcabin's WinCraps simulation shows otherwise.

New to the boards, but not to craps. Had to comment on this because I think the notion that the initial roll on the Come bet is somehow a "wasted" roll is misplaced. Remember that the Come bet has 8 winners and 4 losers on the initial roll -- not many wagers with twice as many winners as losers can be considered a "waste". I think there is a tendency to ignore the value of the initial roll on Come bets because everyone (myself included) focuses on the odds bet on subsequent rolls.

On the larger question Re: number of Come bets, I think the issue is purely one of personal preference/risk tolerance. If I had the bankroll, I would Place with max odds and take the Come line with max odds on every shooter. That said, I seldom have that bankroll. Purely mathematically speaking, one should never take the Come line unless he/she has maxed-out odds on the Pass line wager. Why make a wager with a house edge when you can make a wager with no house edge instead. Purely mathematically speaking, one should never Place either. Why make a wager with a larger house edge when a wager can be made with a smaller house edge?

I UNDERSTAND that, but I seldom do it. Why? Because I like the action of multiple numbers. It's not the "right" way to wager, but part of the value of my money spent is the entertainment I get. To quote the great Neil Young, "it's better to burn out than fade away". As been pointed out on this thread -- I'm not the only gambler who feels that way. And that's why the casinos love us.