September 12th, 2012 at 6:11:56 PM
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Given the interest in my earlier Pai Gow thread, I figured I would continue with another.
This one will probably be easy to figure out.
If you look at all Two Pair hands where the higher pair is Gee Joon, and sort them by their expected return, there are no surprises:
Having the Teen or Day pair in your low hand is a guaranteed win for the bet because both pairs are unbeatable in the low hand. With all lower pairs, sorting by expected return yields the natural tile ranking order, as expected.
With me so far? Good.
Now, if you look at all of the Two Pair hands where the higher pair is the pair of 12s, and sort by expected returns, here is what you get:
Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to figure out why.
Please put answers and supporting arguments in spoiler tags until the mission is complete.
This one will probably be easy to figure out.
If you look at all Two Pair hands where the higher pair is Gee Joon, and sort them by their expected return, there are no surprises:
High Pair | Low Pair | Expected Return |
---|---|---|
Gee Joon | 12s | 0.950000 |
Gee Joon | 2s | 0.950000 |
Gee Joon | H8s | 0.949954 |
Gee Joon | H4s | 0.949861 |
Gee Joon | H10s | 0.949722 |
Gee Joon | H6s | 0.949536 |
Gee Joon | L4s | 0.949304 |
Gee Joon | 11s | 0.949026 |
Gee Joon | L10s | 0.948701 |
Gee Joon | H7s | 0.948330 |
Gee Joon | L6s | 0.947912 |
Gee Joon | 9s | 0.947448 |
Gee Joon | L8s | 0.946938 |
Gee Joon | L7s | 0.946381 |
Gee Joon | 5s | 0.945778 |
Having the Teen or Day pair in your low hand is a guaranteed win for the bet because both pairs are unbeatable in the low hand. With all lower pairs, sorting by expected return yields the natural tile ranking order, as expected.
With me so far? Good.
Now, if you look at all of the Two Pair hands where the higher pair is the pair of 12s, and sort by expected returns, here is what you get:
High Pair | Low Pair | Expected Return |
---|---|---|
12s | 2s | 0.936220 |
12s | H8s | 0.936171 |
12s | H10s | 0.935934 |
12s | H4s | 0.935705 |
12s | 11s | 0.935231 |
12s | L4s | 0.935140 |
12s | H6s | 0.935004 |
12s | L10s | 0.934904 |
12s | H7s | 0.934530 |
12s | 9s | 0.933643 |
12s | L6s | 0.933368 |
12s | L8s | 0.933131 |
12s | L7s | 0.932571 |
12s | 5s | 0.931595 |
H4s and H10s are swapped
The order of H6s, L4s, 11s has been reversed
L6s and 9s have traded places
The order of H6s, L4s, 11s has been reversed
L6s and 9s have traded places
Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to figure out why.
Please put answers and supporting arguments in spoiler tags until the mission is complete.
September 12th, 2012 at 6:37:30 PM
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if the player holds the mooy bo
this leaves the two gor tiles in play
to possibly cause the dealer to be forced into splitting gee joon.
similar reasons for reversing the order of chong, bon, and foo.
as well as look and gow.
this leaves the two gor tiles in play
to possibly cause the dealer to be forced into splitting gee joon.
similar reasons for reversing the order of chong, bon, and foo.
as well as look and gow.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
September 12th, 2012 at 6:40:57 PM
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Correct. I had a feeling it was too easy. I'll try to pick a stumper next time.
September 12th, 2012 at 6:50:29 PM
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I love these quizzes! I am always thrilled when the tiles get a thread.
As always i applaud the vast amount of information and time you have devoted to the game anlysis.
The optimal strategy chart is truly a magnum opus/labor of love; how else could you have bothered?
I am using an iPad and therefore cannot access the tiles calculator, but I am itching to come up with a quiz as well...
One thing I find interesting is the expected value of each individual tile.
I love how this knowledge effects my expectation of whether I will win or not.
We all love to see (or feel) teen or day on our first tile,
But how many times have you gone on to then draw mooy, foo, ping for a total of 1/2?
And of course, conversely, we have all drawn the low six with a feeling of disgust only to hit the bo on the final tile....
The drama of tiles is unbeatable in the casino. Where else can you have so much control over the revelation of your fate?
Baccarat? Maybe, but you can only squeeze three cards, max. I will take my four tiles any day.
As always i applaud the vast amount of information and time you have devoted to the game anlysis.
The optimal strategy chart is truly a magnum opus/labor of love; how else could you have bothered?
I am using an iPad and therefore cannot access the tiles calculator, but I am itching to come up with a quiz as well...
One thing I find interesting is the expected value of each individual tile.
I love how this knowledge effects my expectation of whether I will win or not.
We all love to see (or feel) teen or day on our first tile,
But how many times have you gone on to then draw mooy, foo, ping for a total of 1/2?
And of course, conversely, we have all drawn the low six with a feeling of disgust only to hit the bo on the final tile....
The drama of tiles is unbeatable in the casino. Where else can you have so much control over the revelation of your fate?
Baccarat? Maybe, but you can only squeeze three cards, max. I will take my four tiles any day.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
September 12th, 2012 at 6:55:08 PM
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Thanks.
I know what you mean about revealing your tiles. First a 6 ... grr ... then a 4 ... "not again" ... then a 5... and then the matching 6.
I know what you mean about revealing your tiles. First a 6 ... grr ... then a 4 ... "not again" ... then a 5... and then the matching 6.
September 12th, 2012 at 7:06:04 PM
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The last time I played. high stakes tiles
I revealed the exact order I posted: teen, (yes!), then...mooy, foo, ping. 1/2
the dealer beat me with 3/4. Sam/say, really?
Totally disgusted, I decided to bank, it Had to get better, right?
Next hand, banking..
Look, low chit, chong, bon..1/2 even lower than the first time...
(I noted that it wasn't even gor for the High 1, lol)
To add insult to injury, I had the dealer flip the hand that would have been mine
if I hadnt asked to deal House Way Left..
Teen Wong, Chong Bo...
I decided then and there to only play at home for four weeks!
I revealed the exact order I posted: teen, (yes!), then...mooy, foo, ping. 1/2
the dealer beat me with 3/4. Sam/say, really?
Totally disgusted, I decided to bank, it Had to get better, right?
Next hand, banking..
Look, low chit, chong, bon..1/2 even lower than the first time...
(I noted that it wasn't even gor for the High 1, lol)
To add insult to injury, I had the dealer flip the hand that would have been mine
if I hadnt asked to deal House Way Left..
Teen Wong, Chong Bo...
I decided then and there to only play at home for four weeks!
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
September 12th, 2012 at 11:14:15 PM
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I'm very, very new to PG tiles... I take it the low six is the worst tile you could have if you just looked at one? Is that because there are four tiles worth 4 points that pair so badly with it?
September 12th, 2012 at 11:18:12 PM
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Last edited by: sodawater on Oct 1, 2018
September 13th, 2012 at 12:23:23 AM
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Oh, thanks for noticing that, I must be getting senile.
it was CHIT bo.(high 7)
it was CHIT bo.(high 7)
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
September 13th, 2012 at 12:46:41 AM
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deleted
Last edited by: sodawater on Oct 1, 2018
September 13th, 2012 at 12:54:15 AM
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Yes I forgot that it goes by that name. Its an anglicized version of the Chinese name.
I have a bad habit of referring to all sevens as chit.
To be clear my losing hand was low four, low seven and high six, low six.
The hand I would have had was Wong, and high seven pair.
Again, sorry to be confusing, i was at work earlier when I posted, and drunk when I tried to correct it.
I have a bad habit of referring to all sevens as chit.
To be clear my losing hand was low four, low seven and high six, low six.
The hand I would have had was Wong, and high seven pair.
Again, sorry to be confusing, i was at work earlier when I posted, and drunk when I tried to correct it.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
September 13th, 2012 at 1:02:44 AM
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it is not just due to the fours,Quote: sodawaterI'm very, very new to PG tiles... I take it the low six is the worst tile you could have if you just looked at one? Is that because there are four tiles worth 4 points that pair so badly with it?
almost every hand that you construct with the low six has some weakness to it.
Go through the list of possible pairings and compare the ranks of those hands
to the other ways to form hands of the same numerical value.
Wizard of odds/JB has a nice chart on the power rankings of the various hand values.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.