Phrantic
Joined: Jun 25, 2012
• Posts: 1
June 25th, 2012 at 2:33:25 PM permalink
Hi everyone,

Long time lurker and fellow math-guy. (well physics mostly)

Recently the M resort has started up a new roulette game with 2 wheels together!

Curious as to what everyone thinks of this game and if anyone has played it yet or not.
buzzpaff
Joined: Mar 8, 2011
• Posts: 5328
June 25th, 2012 at 2:36:27 PM permalink
They use math in Physics ? Thanks for the warning. Was thinking about taking a Physics class next semester. NO MORE !
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
• Posts: 10200
June 25th, 2012 at 2:56:02 PM permalink
It's a TCS John Huxley product. They're the primary manufacturer of wheels.

Here's their web page about it:
http://www.tcsjohnhuxley.com/en/live-gaming/roulette-wheels/double-action-roulette.html

When I was in Vegas for G2E, I was invited to their private show at the Palms, and saw the Double Action wheel. I have even given it a few spins.

The heavy central wheel is spin in one direction. The lighter outer ring is spun the opposite way. There is a loud clicking sound as it spins. Obviously these are some type of catch that allows the ring to come to quick and a perfectly aligned rest. While it's clicking, the ball is spin in the same direction as the ring, but opposite the wheel. When it "rests", it spins in unison to the central wheel and pockets.

Note that there is a video on the TCS page above that briefly shows this action. However, when you watch repeatedly, you notice that it's exactly opposite what I described. In particular, just about the time that the ball drops into a pocket is when the wheels align in the video. But you'll note that in the video, it's the wheel, including the pockets, that stop and about-face, while the ring maintains it's speed. That's what happens when you let an animator do the video, rather than incorporate actual footage. I.E. Nobody double-checked the animation!

With a correct spin, the ring comes to a rest (and the clicking stops) long before the ball starts to come out of the upper lip of the wheel.

I'm undecided about how annoying that clicking sound will be. I'm equally undecided about the wear and tear this produces. Will a bias form faster than they anticipate? Don't know.

Then there's the game itself.

As you can see, the layout is completely different, allowing for two full layouts (one for the wheel, and the other for the ring), as well as a third layout just for doubles.

The net result is that streets and two-lines have changed. And there's two of everything.

Also, the odds and payouts of what are normally even money bets have changed.

Bottom line: I'm not really a roulette player, so I can't say how the players will react. Personally, I don't like it.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁 Note that the same could be said for Religion. I.E. Religion is nothing more than organized superstition. 🤗
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
• Posts: 24131
June 25th, 2012 at 3:01:36 PM permalink
Quote: xx

a second roulette ring rotates in the opposite direction of the main ring. When the winning number lines up on both rings, the player that has made the corresponding side bet is paid up to 1,200 to 1!

You can probably count on one hand the number of times
in a year that will happen. Another sucker bet.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
• Posts: 11413
June 25th, 2012 at 3:03:41 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Bottom line: I'm not really a roulette player, so I can't say how the players will react. Personally, I don't like it.

Have you thought how it would impact your Poker for Roulette?
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
bigfoot66
Joined: Feb 5, 2010
• Posts: 1577
June 25th, 2012 at 3:04:23 PM permalink
Man it is hard enough to hit a single number in roullete, now I gotta do it twice in one spin?
Vote for Nobody 2020!
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
• Posts: 10200
June 25th, 2012 at 3:04:44 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

You can probably count on one hand the number of times
in a year that will happen. Another sucker bet.

Actually, a double hits 1 in 38 times. Correctly picking the double happens 1 in 1,444 times.

(Assuming a double-zero wheel.)
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁 Note that the same could be said for Religion. I.E. Religion is nothing more than organized superstition. 🤗
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
• Posts: 24131
June 25th, 2012 at 3:07:18 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Bottom line: I'm not really a roulette player, so I can't say how the players will react. Personally, I don't like it.

Nobody will like it when they see how often
the two rings line up. Which is almost never.
The casino won't like it the first time they
have to pay off a \$25 bet at 1200/1. Thats
\$30,000. Oops.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
• Posts: 10200
June 25th, 2012 at 3:08:35 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Have you thought how it would impact your Poker for Roulette?

Yes.

In fact, one of the reasons I was at that show at the Palms was to talk to them about Poker For Roulette.

If you check my home page, you'll see, without being named, that my 4 spin version is designed with Double Action in mind:

The four spin version is better thought of as a four result version. It is intended for custom Roulette systems where two results are produced in a single spin, enabling resolutions in only two spins.

The people at the ShuffleMaster focus group thought 5 spins was too ling to wait. 3 spins is better. But 4 results in 2 spins is fantastic.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁 Note that the same could be said for Religion. I.E. Religion is nothing more than organized superstition. 🤗
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
• Posts: 24131
June 25th, 2012 at 3:11:17 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Correctly picking the double happens 1 in 1,444 times.

If the average wheel is open for 2 shifts at 30 spins an hour,
thats 1 hit every 3 days. But it could easily go 3 weeks without a hit.
Thats forever in roulette. And somebody has to have bet on it.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal