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GWAE
GWAE
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March 24th, 2019 at 6:07:19 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Quick update for those in SWPA. Meadows sportbook coming for football season I was just told last night.

$10MM to get a license for a SB in PA BTW.



It made sense for the rivers, I can not see the meadows making enough to justify the 10mil. So if we assume 10% juice they need 100 mil in wagers to break even before taxes and expenses. Are taxes 54% or whatever they originally wanted? They will need 250 million in wagers just to break even after expenses.
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AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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March 24th, 2019 at 6:41:37 AM permalink
Quote: GWAE

It made sense for the rivers, I can not see the meadows making enough to justify the 10mil. So if we assume 10% juice they need 100 mil in wagers to break even before taxes and expenses. Are taxes 54% or whatever they originally wanted? They will need 250 million in wagers just to break even after expenses.



I can see it. They are set up far better as to space, just split the downstairs horse book into two, same as was done at the Stardust. Horses one side, sports on the other. I forget the exact number, but Rivers currently has the highest handle in the state. Some number of those bettors would rather go to Meadows. The towns around Meadows are booming so should bring plenty of action.

I do not know the tax on books, but it has to be closer to the 13% on tables than the mafia-like 55% on slots.

FWIW I was at Rivers about two weeks ago on a Monday, about 4-5:00. A Monday, not during March Madness, no particular game or playoffs driving anything. All 15 betting kiosks were being used. Whether these guys were placing their own bets or were runners laying off unbalanced action, that kind of action on a flipping Monday afternoon shows there is a ton of demand.

One last thing. Meadows has a huge advantage in football season in that home Steelers weekends it is hard to impossible (yes, impossible!) to get to Rivers. Even if they comp the $60 parking fee if you sportsbet same as they do poker tourneys, lots of people including myself want no part of that mess.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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March 24th, 2019 at 7:29:12 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

horse book

IIRC RS_ got laughed at for using that term.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
unJon
unJon
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March 24th, 2019 at 12:48:23 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

It made sense for the rivers, I can not see the meadows making enough to justify the 10mil. So if we assume 10% juice they need 100 mil in wagers to break even before taxes and expenses. Are taxes 54% or whatever they originally wanted? They will need 250 million in wagers just to break even after expenses.

10% juice is only collected half the time so it’s really a $200m handle to get the $10m price.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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March 24th, 2019 at 1:08:33 PM permalink
Quote: unJon

10% juice is only collected half the time so it’s really a $200m handle to get the $10m price.



I don't think.you can really isolate out the handle to pay for the license, with the enhanced offering bringing in people who would otherwise be at other books. I would think it would increase incidental gambling, the food and bar net, other gains. I can see this being a long term investment in overall value, too, not needing all that much square footage to deliver consistent value.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
unJon
unJon
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March 24th, 2019 at 1:14:12 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

I don't think.you can really isolate out the handle to pay for the license, with the enhanced offering bringing in people who would otherwise be at other books. I would think it would increase incidental gambling, the food and bar net, other gains. I can see this being a long term investment in overall value, too, not needing all that much square footage to deliver consistent value.

Totally agree with you babs. I was just pointing out the math error in the post I quoted.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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March 24th, 2019 at 1:38:18 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

I don't think.you can really isolate out the handle to pay for the license, with the enhanced offering bringing in people who would otherwise be at other books. I would think it would increase incidental gambling, the food and bar net, other gains. I can see this being a long term investment in overall value, too, not needing all that much square footage to deliver consistent value.



It is bringing that in for sure. How many "extra" people come to sports gamble might be up for debate. There is a Lefty Frank Rosenthal interview where he states that a big reason for having the book inside the casino is synergy. OTOH they are not doing it to lose money. That there is a line for people betting a dime and up shows there is a ton of action.

The sports betting podcast I listen to is based in PA/NJ and gives the local handle for these casinos. I will try to remember to notice next time and put up some results here for discussion.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
GWAE
GWAE
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March 24th, 2019 at 1:54:57 PM permalink
I Guess that is true just like the poker room.
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AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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April 7th, 2019 at 12:02:03 PM permalink
WHAT IS WITH THIS RUNLINE??

I was always under the impression that the runline was 1-1/2 runs. But look at this scratch sheet. Casino name redacted to keep Wiz and Zuga out of dutch, you can use your imagination.



I guess a runline of 1 run exactly lets you turn a favorite into a dog, or vice versa. Though this would make 1/6 to 1/3 of the games a push statistically.

Is this normal? Is 1-1/2 runline no more in other places.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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April 7th, 2019 at 12:34:30 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman


Is this normal? Is 1-1/2 runline no more in other places.

Can't figure out if you're kidding with that redaction

I'm new to the matter, but but have only seen 1.5 myself
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder

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