pingu
pingu
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August 2nd, 2010 at 11:00:12 AM permalink
was just wondering if anyone has tried this, and what comments they have for doing this?

im thinking of when i have a big enough bankroll, coupon arbitrage with vegas books. how many books are there in vegas within a close proximity to each other? assume a 3 mils radius for example, at the most densely book populated area in vegas. im not 21 yet so i not been to vegas, just a rough guess will be cool though. :)
Wizard
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Wizard
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August 2nd, 2010 at 11:14:17 AM permalink
That is a very viable advantage play, which I think doesn't get as much coverage as it should. The people doing it I'm sure are happy about that. You need a huge bankroll and a team of runners to do it properly. The margins are also very small. From what I know about it, usually such operations will bet a game one way in Vegas, and the other way offshore. It would be much more profitable, in my opinion, if you combined this with intelligent handicapping.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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August 2nd, 2010 at 11:44:45 AM permalink
Man, I have learned SO MUCH since this forum started.

Arbitage? Wikipedia to the rescue. Although I quickly got the jist of it, a link lower in the page sent me to a specific page that had lots of good info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbitrage_betting
Notable is the first paragraph, and in particular, the part I highlighted:
Quote:

Betting arbitrage, miraclebets, surebets, sports arbitraging is a particular case of arbitrage arising on betting markets due to either bookmakers' different opinions on event outcomes or plain errors. By placing one bet per each outcome with different betting companies, the bettor can make a profit. As long as different Bookmakers are used for arbitrage betting the Bookmakers do not have a problem with this. Each Bookmaker will still make profit due to their calculations.



Wiz -
I assume that this is different than hedging because the ofsetting bets are done in a manner where a profit is guaranteed. Hedging merely reduces loss.
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Wizard
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Wizard
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August 2nd, 2010 at 12:00:16 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear


Wiz -
I assume that this is different than hedging because the ofsetting bets are done in a manner where a profit is guaranteed. Hedging merely reduces loss.



I know one of my The Ten Commandments of Gambling is "Thou shalt not hedge thy bets." However, in the case of sports betting, I would make an exception. Hedging is making a bad bet to lower risk, usually to ensure a profit. For example, taking "even money" on a blackjack. Arbitrage is locking in a profit in sports or financial markets, where the edge is not quantifiable.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Zcore13
Zcore13
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August 2nd, 2010 at 12:45:11 PM permalink
I've done arbitage betting online on a very small scale. It definately works at it's about as good a sure thing as you'll ever do. The problem with doing it right online is you have to have a lot (dozens) of online accounts to make sure you get the best opportunity to see spreads on both sides of games. You also have to have a larger bankroll doing it all online, since the money you win at one book isn't quickly available for you to use at another. It would be much easier if you could do it all on the strip or mostly on the strip because of the easy access to your cash winnings.

It does work though.
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Wizard
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August 2nd, 2010 at 1:07:54 PM permalink
I like the convenience and access to your money of betting in Vegas too. However, from what I've gathered from people who do it, such opportunities don't happen often.

I think the only offshore account you would need is Pinnacle, which takes big action, and you often get good value on favorites, while you get good value on underdogs in Vegas.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
rdw4potus
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August 2nd, 2010 at 1:33:01 PM permalink
This isn't exactly on-point, but it's close enough that I'll put this here instead of creating a new thread...

I'm a politics junkie, and I'd like to make a number of wagers on races and ballot issues before November. Is there anywhere I can go that will book that kind of action?
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
Zcore13
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August 2nd, 2010 at 2:28:49 PM permalink
I hate to disagree with the Wizard, but there are arbitrage opportunities almost every day if you have enough accounts and time to watch them. The more accounts you have, the better chance of finding one. Most are during soccer and baseball season, but it really doesn't matter since you don't have to know a thing about sports to make it work.

Here's an example for today(at this minute):

Chicago Sox @ Detroit (MLB)

Pinnacle has Detroit +104
TitanBet has Chicago -101

Bet $1,000 on each side and if Detroit wins you lose $1010 and win $1,040.
If Chicago wins you lose $1,000 and win $1,000

Milwaukee @ Chicago Cubs

Pinnacle has Mil -115
LuxBet has Chicago at +140

Bet $1,000 on each side and if Mil wins you lose $1,000 and win $1,000.
If Chicago wins you lose $1,000 and win $1,400


Many times you can find both sides beind an underdog, which means you are a guaranteed winner, instead of the above cases where you either win or push. When I find the underdogs on both sides, it makes me smile a lot :)
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
Wizard
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August 2nd, 2010 at 2:36:19 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

I hate to disagree with the Wizard, but...



The original question was about artbitrage strictly in Vegas, which I said is hard, and stand by it. You make a good point that you don't have to use Vegas as just one side, but can do it entirely online. While I didn't say that, I don't think I said the opposite either.

That is quite a spread on the Mil/ChC game, by the way. Here are the lines now:

Pinnacle
--------
Mil -115
ChC +108

LuxBet
------
Mil EV
ChC -120

Still a good middle, but Mil has moved quite a bit since your post.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
SolidAU
SolidAU
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August 2nd, 2010 at 2:37:55 PM permalink
Boxing is a good place to look for arbitrage opportunities. Prop bets will also yield results, but limits tend to be pretty low, you may find it's not worth your time to run around town to lock in a $40 win on $1000 of action.

Additionally, arbitrage isn't always as riskless as it looks. Lines move, and you can sometimes get shut out of the bet you want to make.

I think in Stanford Wong's sports betting book he points out that when you find an arbitrage opportunity, then by definition one side is almost always inefficient and therefore +EV. If you put in a little legwork handicapping you can often produce a better return.

Alas, Wiz, for those of us in the USA, Pinnacle is unavailable...

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