THE STATE OF THE NFL

I was listening to someone on the radio talk about why seattle has a great advantage with the noise issue. It seems the stadium is buily either by coincidence or on purpose so that sound is channeled better to the field.

Is this where the NFL is going now? Are stadiums going to be built so as to channel sound to the field? People complain about the sound system in seattle may be magnifying the sound. Geez....are stadiums going to be putting in sound systems to sabotage the visitors

There used to be a stoppage of play if the visiting QB couldnt relay the play due to crowd noise.

This week in SF the ticket buyers are being told to make alot of noise, bring horns, and use them during the opposition possession...by 49er organization

come on...isnt it getting just too over the top now. Why not have jet planes fly over the stadium during visitor possessions.

football is a game of precision. Split second timing based on the entire line being able to react to a signal call. With this attention to noise, now its not such a precise split second reaction as the line has to look for a visual signal and react a split second slower. More chance of false start. More chance of starting a little too slow.

And what about the person who attends the game. When we listen to the game on tv the crowd noise is muffled and homogenious. What about a person who pays 200 dollars for a moderate ticket...and has to endure for half the game, people around him who feel obligated tho scream and blow horns when the visitors have the ball..
hell I have been to sporting events, and spontaneous cheering is envigorating based on an incredible play on the field/court. But to sit through 50 percent of a game where you hear the individual people screaming and cursing, and blowing horns in your ear from behind.....for no other reason than to be credited with being "the 12th man". Is the game now more enjoyable by screaming your lungs out just becausde the visitor has the ball?

And to make it worse, the coaches after the game for the winning team credits the crowd.....empowering them to be even more vocal next time.

Is this what the NFL has come to,,,the team in the stadium that is most conducive to channelling noise, and theorganization that promotes fans to make as much noise as possible can have a decisive advantage. More of an advantage than the usual home crowd. But a real advantage where the opposing team cannot play football as it was designed. And the stadium is reserved for the fanatic fringe.

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Were you aware the NFL is tax exempt? The cities through the taxes provide the infrastructure, roads, sewer water etc, and the nfl gets to reap the money tax free?


The NFL Is A Tax-Exempt Organization — But One Senator Wants To Change That


By Travis Waldron on April 25, 2013 at 5:12 pm

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Oklahoma Sen. Tom Coburn (R) today introduced an amendment to the Marketplace Fairness Act that would end the practice of allowing professional sports leagues to qualify as tax-exempt organizations, a move that would hit leagues like the National Football League, the Professional Golfers Association (PGA) Tour, and the National Hockey League, among others.

Since 1966, the tax code has allowed leagues to classify as 501(c)(6) charitable organizations — a classification used by trade and industry organizations — under the assumption that the leagues were promoting the general value of their sports. But Coburn’s amendment asserts that the leagues are not non-profits engaged in the promotion of their sports but instead are businesses interested solely in the promotion of their business; that is, the NFL isn’t so much concerned about promoting the general sport of football as it is concerned with promoting NFL football, because it is the NFL brand and the NFL teams and logos and products that make it a profitable business. The NFL, for instance, didn’t seem interested in promoting the general spread of football when a competitor league, the United States Football League, was formed in 1983. Likewise, the PGA Tour, NHL, and other sports leagues serve to promote their brand of their sports, not the sport as a whole.

Further, the leagues hardly pay their executives as if they are non-profits. The NFL paid $51.5 million to just eight executives in 2010, according to Coburn, and other leagues are similar — PGA commissioner Tim Finchem made $5.2 million that year, while NHL commissioner Gary Bettman took home $4.3 million.

In his 2012 Waste Book that chronicled government waste, Coburn said that taxpayers were losing as much as $91 million a year subsidizing professional sports leagues because of their non-profit status:


The National Football League (NFL), the National Hockey League (NHL), and the Professional Golfers’ Association (PGA) classify themselves as non-profit organizations to exempt themselves from federal income taxes on earnings. Smaller sports leagues, such as the National Lacrosse League, are also using the tax status. Taxpayers may be losing at least $91 million subsidizing these tax loopholes for professional sports leagues that generate billions of dollars annually in profits. Taxpayers should not be asked to subsidize sports organizations already benefiting widely from willing fans and turning a profit, while claiming to be non-profit organizations.

The 501(c)(6) provision, specifically amended in 1966 to add “professional football leagues,” states that “[n]o part of a business league’s net earnings may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual and it may not be organized for profit to engage in an activity ordinarily carried on for profit.” That would seem a hard standard for most professional leagues to meet, given the amount of revenue they make and the benefits they provide to the people involved. Individual team owners, in fact, benefit substantially from the league’s structure and even its classification as a non-profit organization.



NFL teams pay membership dues totaling roughly $6 million per team, but they are allowed to write those off for tax purposes as donations to a charitable organization. As Andrew Delaney explained in the Vermont Law Review in 2010, the NFL, which collected $192 million in revenue largely through membership dues in 2009, then pours much of that money back into a stadium fund that allows owners to access interest-free loans as long as they secure taxpayer financing for either new stadiums or improvements to existing facilities. The NFL’s dues, then, go almost solely toward the enrichment of its franchise owners even as they are exempt from federal taxation (and often from state and local taxation as well). Taxpayers get hit on two fronts: not only do they lose out on federal tax revenues, they also end up footing the bill for new stadiums and stadium improvements (most recently in Atlanta and Minnesota, with ongoing efforts in Miami and other cities). But all of the benefit, much of which comes from the tax-exempt status, goes to owners and the NFL, as Delaney explained:


Technically, the city owns the stadium. Personal seat licenses or PSLs are sold through a public agency, tax-free. Profits are then used to pay down the owner’s share of the NFL loan. The money from the PSLs never goes directly to the teams, though the teams save millions of dollars in taxes and the loan from the NFL is paid down significantly, providing a very significant benefit to the owners.

Removing the tax-exempt status would force the leagues to acknowledge the reality that they are businesses, and they would be taxed as such. For the NFL, that would mean that membership dues and assessments would no longer be tax exempt, according to Delaney, and the profits run through the NFL’s or PGA’s tax-exempt organizations no longer would be either (the NFL runs multiple for-profit organizations, such as NFL Films, in addition to its non-profit partner). Instead, the leagues would be taxed much like corporations, and a wide range of tax write-offs would be available just as they are to other corporations. They would still be able to operate the charitable organizations they already have as tax-exempt 501(c)(3) charities.

It’s unclear how much of a benefit ending the tax-exempt status of professional sports leagues would bring directly to taxpayers, largely because the complexity of how the leagues have structured their businesses makes it hard to know how much they benefit directly from being tax-exempt (Major League Baseball claims that giving up its tax-exempt status in 2007 had no effect on its annual taxes, but there’s no way to know for sure). And it’s unlikely we will find out soon, since Coburn’s amendment isn’t likely to receive a vote when the Senate finally takes up the Marketplace Fairness Act sometime this week.

That’s a shame though, because a vote and legitimate debate about Coburn’s amendment would benefit the public, which often doesn’t get the full picture from sports leagues, owners, and lawmakers about how much of their money goes to subsidizing the sports we watch. Taxpayers in the past have been outraged when they find out how much subsidies for new stadiums are going to ultimately cost them, but by then, it’s almost always too late. And while the leagues we subsidize — either directly or indirectly — are popular among fans, whether those same fans are willing to shell out their tax dollars to help wealthy owners and franchises become even wealthier is impossible to know, since we almost never receive robust and honest debate about those subsidies. Coburn’s amendment is a chance to at least throw that into the national conversation about tax reform — and it’s a chance lawmakers shouldn’t be so hesitant to take.

Quote: Ibeatyouraces

If a team wants me to come to their games to make a bunch of noise that may help them win, they can pay me to do so instead of me buying a ticket. If not, F them.

u said in one consice sentence what took me 4 paragraphs to express

I think a lot of fans love the fact that they can have a direct impact on what happens on the field. Instead of being just a bystander left to watch and hope my team wins, I can scream along with the other 70,000 fans and perhaps actually increase my teams chance of winning.

Just like in baseball, if a team relies heavily on speedy players who can bunt, the groundskeeper will allow the infield grass to grow longer thus deadening the bunted ball and increasing the chance of a base hit.

In basketball fans sitting behind the backboard do all kinds of crazy stuff to distract opposing free throw shooters.

The home field advantage in sports isn't just about playing in your home city, it's about the visitor team having to deal with anything and everything the fans can do to give their team an edge.

And if you don't like noise... Stay home, I think a football game should not be on your list of places to be on a Sunday afternoon.

Quote: michael99000

I think a lot of fans love the fact that they can have a direct impact on what happens on the field. Instead of being just a bystander left to watch and hope my team wins, I can scream along with the other 70,000 fans and perhaps actually increase my teams chance of winning.

Just like in baseball, if a team relies heavily on speedy players who can bunt, the groundskeeper will allow the infield grass to grow longer thus deadening the bunted ball and increasing the chance of a base hit.

In basketball fans sitting behind the backboard do all kinds of crazy stuff to distract opposing free throw shooters.

The home field advantage in sports isn't just about playing in your home city, it's about the visitor team having to deal with anything and everything the fans can do to give their team an edge.

And if you don't like noise... Stay home, I think a football game should not be on your list of places to be on a Sunday afternoon.

you are the typical fanatic. I listen to them on sports talk radio all the time. The season ends ,it was a bad season, and the financially well off atheletes go off to europe, bahamas, hawaii, their gated comuities with beautiful wife and nannies. And the fanatics call the radio station all off season agonizing over the previous season over and over. Do you think the atheletes are agonizing over it.nope they are having a good ole time.

the fans are being used by the NFL teams to scream on que.
This isnt spontaneous cheering based on a spectacular play, or booing because of a bad call.
No this is a calculated use of fans to help the millionaires get more millions through more wins. Do you think they are going to reduce season ticket prices if you do a good job screaming on their que....when they tell u to scream.

Like I said why dont all teams put in speaker systems and magnify the crowd noise. The stadium with the best speaker system gets the advantage. Or why dont they fly jets back and forth over the field during the opponents offensive possessions.

And people who dont want to hear lemmings screaming on que just because millionaires told them to....people who dont want to pay 200 dollars for tickets and hear horns blasted in their ear for half the game and others screaming obscenities or other inane nonsense should definately not pay for tickets and leave the fanatics to themselves. THe people who hang on every win or loss, the ones that agonize and debate the game long after the atheletes have forgotten about it. The ones that buy a 12 dollar beer and spill it on a person wearing a opponents jersey. THOSE well adjusted people....can scream their lungs out on que....when they are told....and actually feel a sense of accomplishment

Personally I get that sense of accomplishment in life from family and work, and pro bono work I do. Others get it from screaming on que and hearing the millionaire coach thank them at the press conference after the game.

Personally I get no satisfaction personally from taking orders from others that infringe on my ability to enjoy an event....... if people have such shallow lives that they feel they were a part of a team winning thats cool. It says more about their lives though.

Lebron James said it very well once after he lost his first championship in Miami....WHEN ASKED ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO BOO HIM.....he said something likE....I go back to my cool life afterwards...and they are left with their mundane little lives. But what he didnt realize is that the same goes for the people who cheer him also. He was also slapping them in the face. But its true. Atheletes wont say it....but after the arena closes...they have the great life, can do whatever they want....go wherever they want....buy whatever they want......and the fans go back to their mundane lives....agonizing about the past season, or basking in the false glory of the chanpionship season.

Quote: michael99000

In basketball fans sitting behind the backboard do all kinds of crazy stuff to distract opposing free throw shooters.

Obligatory

Quote: AcesAndEights

Obligatory

Man, that's some funny sh*t. I never saw that before. Thanks for posting it.

Quote: LarryS

you are the typical fanatic. I listen to them on sports talk radio all the time. The season ends ,it was a bad season, and the financially well off atheletes go off to europe, bahamas, hawaii, their gated comuities with beautiful wife and nannies. And the fanatics call the radio station all off season agonizing over the previous season over and over. Do you think the atheletes are agonizing over it.nope they are having a good ole time.

the fans are being used by the NFL teams to scream on que.
This isnt spontaneous cheering based on a spectacular play, or booing because of a bad call.
No this is a calculated use of fans to help the millionaires get more millions through more wins. Do you think they are going to reduce season ticket prices if you do a good job screaming on their que....when they tell u to scream.

Like I said why dont all teams put in speaker systems and magnify the crowd noise. The stadium with the best speaker system gets the advantage. Or why dont they fly jets back and forth over the field during the opponents offensive possessions.

And people who dont want to hear lemmings screaming on que just because millionaires told them to....people who dont want to pay 200 dollars for tickets and hear horns blasted in their ear for half the game and others screaming obscenities or other inane nonsense should definately not pay for tickets and leave the fanatics to themselves. THe people who hang on every win or loss, the ones that agonize and debate the game long after the atheletes have forgotten about it. The ones that buy a 12 dollar beer and spill it on a person wearing a opponents jersey. THOSE well adjusted people....can scream their lungs out on que....when they are told....and actually feel a sense of accomplishment

Personally I get that sense of accomplishment in life from family and work, and pro bono work I do. Others get it from screaming on que and hearing the millionaire coach thank them at the press conference after the game.

Personally I get no satisfaction personally from taking orders from others that infringe on my ability to enjoy an event....... if people have such shallow lives that they feel they were a part of a team winning thats cool. It says more about their lives though.

Lebron James said it very well once after he lost his first championship in Miami....WHEN ASKED ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO BOO HIM.....he said something likE....I go back to my cool life afterwards...and they are left with their mundane little lives. But what he didnt realize is that the same goes for the people who cheer him also. He was also slapping them in the face. But its true. Atheletes wont say it....but after the arena closes...they have the great life, can do whatever they want....go wherever they want....buy whatever they want......and the fans go back to their mundane lives....agonizing about the past season, or basking in the false glory of the chanpionship season.

Ive been too many nfl and college football games and we were never told by anyone when to scream or how to scream. I've noticed that pretty much everything you post about sports in General is full of innaccuracies and generalizations, and it seems as though you are just guessing about a lot of things. You sound like someone who either 1) overhears others talking about sports and tries to type it here but gets it all garbled , or 2) you just started following sports recently and don't realize that your posts reflect that.

exactly what is your point? are you sad panda because millionaire athletes make millions? last time I checked, and I check every day, (Oceans 13) you get paid what you are worth period. if someone pays you 10 mil a minute, then you must be worth it. I'm a clock punching working stiff, like the ones you lament, but I enjoy football. I am a die hard Seattle fan, who hasn't been to a game in long time, but if they want to scream to their hearts content, let them. If you buy a ticket you can sit there on your hands all game.

SF fans need a prompter to know when to yell. I remember the kingdome days when Elway would ask the referee to stop play so he could hear. you know what, your team can do the same thing. I think you are just jealous of the money made by everyone that isn't you out there. I probably make a lot less money than you, but I harbor no ill will to the person making more.

Quote: michael99000

I I've noticed that pretty much everything you post about _______ in General is full of innaccuracies and generalizations, and it seems as though you are just guessing about a lot of things. You sound like someone who either 1) overhears others talking about _____ and tries to type it here but gets it all garbled , or 2) you just started following ________recently and don't realize that your posts reflect that.

Can I jut copy and past this next time we get a Varmenti type on the forum? We have one in a different thread now.

Seattle should be focusing on their collection of punk corners who can't seem to stay away from illegal substances. The noise thing is just that: noise.

Quote: michael99000

I think a lot of fans love the fact that they can have a direct impact on what happens on the field. Instead of being just a bystander left to watch and hope my team wins, I can scream along with the other 70,000 fans and perhaps actually increase my teams chance of winning.

Just like in baseball, if a team relies heavily on speedy players who can bunt, the groundskeeper will allow the infield grass to grow longer thus deadening the bunted ball and increasing the chance of a base hit.

In basketball fans sitting behind the backboard do all kinds of crazy stuff to distract opposing free throw shooters.

The home field advantage in sports isn't just about playing in your home city, it's about the visitor team having to deal with anything and everything the fans can do to give their team an edge.

This is why I don't consider pro golfers as pro athletes. They cry if it is too noisy. Boo-hoo, babies. That, and the fact that an average guy could play against the very best golfer in the world and have a chance to beat him on one or two holes, whereas an average guy could play LeBron James 1 on 1 and never even get a shot off.

Quote: megapixels

This is why I don't consider pro golfers as pro athletes. They cry if it is too noisy. Boo-hoo, babies. That, and the fact that an average guy could play against the very best golfer in the world and have a chance to beat him on one or two holes, whereas an average guy could play LeBron James 1 on 1 and never even get a shot off.

then That could be said about tennis players as well

Quote: michael99000

Ive been too many nfl and college football games and we were never told by anyone when to scream or how to scream. I've noticed that pretty much everything you post about sports in General is full of innaccuracies and generalizations, and it seems as though you are just guessing about a lot of things. You sound like someone who either 1) overhears others talking about sports and tries to type it here but gets it all garbled , or 2) you just started following sports recently and don't realize that your posts reflect that.

No, I just agree with Lebron. Whe you boo him or cheer him, in the end he goes back to his cool life and you go back to your mundane littlelife which he feels is inferior. He is laughing all the way to the bank no matter what you do. As are all atheletes. You can agonize over the games long after they have forgoten about them You can call sports stations, debate your friends in sports bars, go home and sulk....but the athelete has already moved on .

so after a season or after a game in my opinion its silly to cry about a loss. And after a win its silly to have this false displaced sense of satisfaction as if you had actually won.

I am on a gambling site. So my favorite team each week are the teams I stand to make money on. I have no false sense of illusion that I am part of the team. I have no false sense of accomplishment when my team that week wins, except to be happy that I did do a good analysis and arrainged my bets correctly.

My accomplishemts in life are measured by my family, my job and my pro bono work. I do not include wins and losses of sports teams on my resume.

Thisis not "things I heard"....this is reality....things I know

I know that i am not part of a teams win or loss. Therefore if I go to a game for entertainment pourposes I dont feel the need "help my team win". The atheletes are quite capable of doing that for themselves. Sure I will spontaneously cheer at a fine play or boo at a poor call. But thats what normal people do. You know the ones who's lives dont revolve around a sports team. THose that have this need to be called "the twelvth man". So they can go home with the glowing feeling that they won.

I know there are people out there that view the success or lack of success of their sports team as an extension of their own success. Thats fine for those that have no real personal successes to make them feel whole.

I know that to pay 200 dollars for a ticket and have some person behind , next to, and in front of you screaming at the top of their lungs in the name of "being part of the team" is sad, and annoying....especially when done on que.

I know there is a difference between cheering on a team when you spontaneously feel the need to do so, and taking direction from millionaires on the field who raise their arms and tell you to be loud. I would resent that as much as going to see a comedian and being told when to laugh, or going to a concert and being told when to applaude.

so as you can see I am not "guessing" at any of the above. They are things that "i know".

Kevin Mcreynolds an outfielder for the mets summed it up pretty well.(in the 80;s)

When the mets were down to the last 3 games of the year, and had to beat st louis all 3 games in order to get into the playoffs. Kevin Mcreynplds a highly payed outfielder was asked "do you think you can will all 3 games"

his answer was this: either way I am a winner. If we win we go to the pkayoffs....if we lose I get to go hunting(he was a good ole country boy)

Now the fans like yourself found this horrifying, Fans that agonise over the team, fans that cheer and "help him win games", fans with the false sense of accomplishment when the mets win...all found ths to be a slap in their face.

But in the end, just like Lebron, kEVIN MCREYNOLDS had a life outside of his sport. A very good life. He could chose to do what he wanted when the stadium lights went out. If he won its cool, if he lost its cool also. He told the truth. He said something most atheletes wouldnt say,....but do and think.

and all the fans that invested their lives, went to the ballpark and screamed their lungs out thinking that they were having a hand in the game result....cryed on sports talk radio, and in thei local bars, and to themselves/// tears of betrayal..